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3L in NYC, I have an interview with a federal agency (no honors program) for a position after graduation in DC. They're hiring from GS-11 to GS-14 depending on experience, and I have a full year of experience (summer + externships and working during law school) in exactly the same niche area of law that I would be practicing at the agency. Interview is in DC, so I have to schlep there. I have a few questions.

1. Would it be acceptable for me to randomly reach out to an alumni from my law school that works at the same agency in DC doing the same job that I'm applying for? There are about 100 attorneys in the agency who do perform this particular function. I want to be prepared for the interview but I don't know if there are any special rules when it comes to interviewing for a federal agency that would make this a big faux pas.

2. If I got the position, how feasible would it be to negotiate to start at GS-12 given my experience and the fact that I'll have to spend money to relocate?

3. How many people does fedgov usually interview for something like this? I know there isn't much info to go on since I haven't revealed the agency or the position, but maybe someone has a general sense of whether they would ask me to come all the way to DC if they weren't really interested, or whether they don't care that I have to schlep to DC and they generally interview a ton of people.

1) I think that would be reasonable, so long as you're sure they won't be the one interviewing you. If you already know who your interviewers are, then I don't see why this would be a problem.

2) Not very. If I recall correctly, you can't be GS-12 unless you have a year of government service or equivalent experience AND you've passed the bar. Since you're a 3L, the latter is probably not true. Even if it was, internships/externships don't count towards the year-of-service/experience requirement. (Again, if I'm remembering this all correctly.) GS-11 is the usual entry-level attorney grade. The only folks I know who began at 12 or 13 clerked first.

3) This is so heavily agency dependent that I don't feel I can give you a real answer. Since you're anon, I'm not sure the real harm in telling us what the agency is (at least in the most general terms - DOJ, DHS, Navy, USACE, DOT, etc.) But without that information, it's kind of tough to hazard a guess.

Current fed gov attorney here. Sorry, but no chance you will start at a 12 with that experience. Mi-chan is correct, you must have a full year of government/equivalent service and bar passage. A full year does not mean part-time internships while at law school or full-time summers spent doing similar work. It means an actual full year of full-time employment post-graduation. With that said, it never hurts to try. Ask for that 12 all you want--AFTER you are offered the position, of course.

While it sucks to spend money traveling to the interview, unless its for DOJ Honors, they will not reimburse you--nor will they negotiate your starting salary based on the fact that you have to relocate. Some agencies offer relocation assistance, but my understanding is that it is usually for agents--I've never heard of a new lawyer getting it.

With that said, the promotion potential is usually pretty good. Depending on what agency (DOJ, DHS, etc), you can usually bump to a GS 12 within one year of your start date (pending bar passage of course).

Am I misremembering, or do some entry-level positions offer the possibility of substituting "academic excellence" for one year of specialized experience? Where academic excellence is defined as one or more of top [whatever %] grades, law review, moot court, and a few other things I'm forgetting?

Of course, if the job description doesn't include that option, then presumably it's not available for this job. And I can't swear this isn't only in some of the Honors programs.

Otherwise I completely agree with anon above and Mi-Chan. Experience = post-graduation experience, no relocation money. You can make the best argument you can for what your experience means, but I get the sense negotiating salary isn't really much of a thing for the feds.

Thanks for the advice! The agency is Customs & Border Protection, does that affect the analysis at all?

Same anon as before (fed gov atty). To respond to A. Nony Mouse, I think this is what you were referring to (I just pulled it off a job posting on USAJobs):

GS-905-11: a. The second professional law degree (LL.M.); or b. the first professional law degree (LL.B. or J.D.) plus one year of professional legal experience; or c. the first professional law degree (LL.B. or J.D.) plus superior law student work (i.e, academic standing in the upper 1/3 of an accredited law school graduating class; work or achievement of significance on the law school's official law review or moot court board; special high-level honors for academic excellence in law school-such as, election to Order of the Coif; winning of a moot court team which represents the law school in competition with other law schools, full-time or continuous participation in a legal aid program-as opposed to intermittent or prior to "casual participation"; significant summer law clerk experience; or other evidence of clearly superior achievement).

So the extra stuff (top 1/3, moot court, whatever) is for GS-11 (at least for this posting, of course, but this seems to pretty much be par for the course in fed gov). Hope that helps.

Thanks for the advice! The agency is Customs & Border Protection, does that affect the analysis at all?

It doesn't affect the analysis for the pay grade. DHS is pretty strict that you have to have gov/similar experience for a full year post-graduation before you can bump to a 12. I think it's awesome you got an interview as a 3L though, as I know many agencies are pretty strict with requiring bar passage before even applying. As for how many people they interview, I have no idea. I know one office just recently posted an attorney position as a GS-11 to 14 opening and they received over four hundred applicants. Just know that they would not be wasting their time (and yours) if they weren't somewhat interested.

OP - I'm applying for federal jobs (or at least I'm going to start today) - did you make a whole separate federal resume?

edit: And I assume it would be fine and even show enthusiasm, if you reach out to other people who have the job.

OP here. I do have a separate federal resume, but because my normal resume screams customs/international trade law I didn't use it for this specific position.

As for how many people they interview, I have no idea. I know one office just recently posted an attorney position as a GS-11 to 14 opening and they received over four hundred applicants. Just know that they would not be wasting their time (and yours) if they weren't somewhat interested. [/quote]


Is this for CBP specifically? I'm thinking that because customs law is so niche and the position wasn't widely advertised, they might not receive that many applications. That might be completely wrong though.

Customs law may be niche, but my understanding is that they do a lot of general border/immigration stuff, too.

Also, thanks, anon, for the clarification about the GS-11 - that makes more sense.

Is this for CBP specifically? I'm thinking that because customs law is so niche and the position wasn't widely advertised, they might not receive that many applications. That might be completely wrong though.

No, it wasn't for CBP specifically. But I wouldn't be surprised if they received hundreds of apps, especially in this economy. Did they advertise it on USAJobs? If so, I think that's considered widely advertised. If not, then maybe they received lot less applications--but I don't know of many fed gov jobs not on USAJobs.

Also, for new attorneys, most government agencies provide training. So you could come in with no customs/trade/finance/immigation experience and they will train you. They just want to know you are passionate about their mission and public service. Good luck on the interview! If you have all that specific experience, I'm sure you'll do great.

Does anyone know if General Attorney positions in DHS require the SF-85P supplement?