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You gotta ding aspies early and often. Don't work at a firm with a 100% offer rate.

Oh god what a glorious train wreck

Wow I simultanously felt sickened and saddened. What a mess - gosh I feel for the kid he meant well but it all came out so terribly wrong - goodness what an epic fail!

K-JD

BillPackets wrote:K-JD

Idk I am smelling someone who thinks his 2-3 years at a menial office job before law school gives him BUSINESS EXPERIENCE

ChardPennington wrote:

BillPackets wrote:K-JD

Idk I am smelling someone who thinks his 2-3 years at a menial office job before law school gives him BUSINESS EXPERIENCE

Once a gunner, always a gunner, I suppose.

ChardPennington wrote:

BillPackets wrote:K-JD

Idk I am smelling someone who thinks his 2-3 years at a menial office job before law school gives him BUSINESS EXPERIENCE

As opposed to biglaw, which is by no means menial. In fact, it's an intellectual feast of the first order.

This will probably drive up the number of threads here asking questions they should be directing at their firm's recruiting department.


Guys, can you tell me when my summer program starts?

totally hilarious

I cringed reading that email. I can't say I blame the firm. I hope this person uses this as a learning experience and hopefully goes on to have a good career.

Sadly the person probably won't learn. He/she will probably solely blame the firm and accept no responsibility.

what is this i don't even....

It didn't seem like he was dinged for too many questions. More like he seemed like a loose cannon who would try and make it rain before even becoming an employee.

I really think I would have done the exact same thing as the firm that was so bad. I'm pretty sure I would not even ask HR some of those questions at least until I started working there and even then...yikes.

The person should definitely respond that they can't revoke b/c a valid K was formed given that the message could reasonably be construed as acceptance and that they'll see him starting [whatever the start date]

I also have to admit that I rejected 3 applicants for 1L internships this year mostly because they asked a billion questions just during the application process, and it made me seriously concerned about their ability to work independently.

Desert Fox wrote:You gotta ding aspies early and often. Don't work at a firm with a 100% offer rate.

ChardPennington wrote:

BillPackets wrote:K-JD

Idk I am smelling someone who thinks his 2-3 years at a menial office job before law school gives him BUSINESS EXPERIENCE

I can virtually guarantee you that no one who has spent 2-3 years at an i-bank or a consulting firm would have been tactless enough to fire off such an email.

kartelite wrote:

ChardPennington wrote:

BillPackets wrote:K-JD

Idk I am smelling someone who thinks his 2-3 years at a menial office job before law school gives him BUSINESS EXPERIENCE

I can virtually guarantee you that no one who has spent 2-3 years at an i-bank or a consulting firm would have been tactless enough to fire off such an email.

rofl nice brag

LeDique wrote:

kartelite wrote:

ChardPennington wrote:

BillPackets wrote:K-JD

Idk I am smelling someone who thinks his 2-3 years at a menial office job before law school gives him BUSINESS EXPERIENCE

I can virtually guarantee you that no one who has spent 2-3 years at an i-bank or a consulting firm would have been tactless enough to fire off such an email.

rofl nice brag

Huh? Perhaps you misunderstood my comment, or you just have a very childish way of communicating whatever it is you're trying to convey.

Any sort of environment where stupid questions/insubordination is not tolerated, be it a bank, the military, a competitive sports team, or a dance company, would have given the subject in question the opportunity to learn some discretion in his dealings with superiors before it cost him his job.

Work experience and extracurricular involvement is not only important for the tangible skills you can bring, but also for the soft skills it engenders and the opportunity you've had to learn from your prior mistakes.

user has been warned for posting in the Legal Employment forum as a 0L

Anyone know when the offer was? If it was recent (as most small firms are) then it's not such a big deal. I'm just a 2L and I'm hoping not to screw up this summer myself, but I'd imagine that the whole role of associates (especially juniors) is to make the partners' lives easier. If it's to bring in business, be an equal player on a team, etc. then why hire law students and not the 1000s of out of work attorneys with previous success? The length of the email itself is indicative that this kid is just gonna be a pain in the ass. I'd imagine the thought process was not much deeper than that. It'd be like if Birdman starts telling LeBron what he thinks he should do on the next play instead of just shutting up, and grabbing rebounds. Also, no one mentioned this but it seems the prospect of some kid going in house just for the purpose of talking them into joining the firm could get a firm into trouble? I'm surprised the kid didn't have any friends who would've asked if he was an idiot. That's either another red flag or the downside of going to schools with bad job stats - we all have an inner retard of differing heights, we need others to help us forego being retarded.

LeDique wrote:

kartelite wrote:

ChardPennington wrote:

BillPackets wrote:K-JD

Idk I am smelling someone who thinks his 2-3 years at a menial office job before law school gives him BUSINESS EXPERIENCE

I can virtually guarantee you that no one who has spent 2-3 years at an i-bank or a consulting firm would have been tactless enough to fire off such an email.

rofl nice brag

Slash nice inadvertent admission that i-banking is menial work

I kind of blame e-mail. Even if one is an idiot, in person you can read body language and facial cues. If we pretend this whole e-mail was stated instead, there would probably be eyebrow furrows, slumping shoulders, maybe even a head scratch. The non-verbal communication would have been enough for the guy to have probably punted his novel 2 sentences in. Any long e-mail is risky because you basically are going Energizer battery with something that may be dumb with no feedback on when to kill it. Granted, the long e-mail in general, even if he were at the firm and working on something seems to be representative of the type of person who just doesn't get it. No one will say it to him directly, but he's not there to be an equal lawyer - he's there to help the profit sharers be more time efficient and not have to worry about the BS stuff. Thinking like a partner, you want someone smart, socially apt and most importantly someone who will shutup and keep his head down. This kid is neither, and the whole thing about his commute itself screams of he needs a hand holder. All that said, I doubt they'd terminate him before the summer at any NALP 250 firm.

I have absolutely no sympathy for this dude. Hopefully he learns his lesson, but my guess is that he'll just claim the firm couldn't handle his initiative and try the same thing for his next job application.

BuckinghamB wrote:I have absolutely no sympathy for this dude. Hopefully he learns his lesson, but my guess is that he'll just claim the firm couldn't handle his initiative and try the same thing for his next job application.

I agree that the email was a bad choice and that the firm probably did the right thing. However, I take issue with the comments to the effect that the student will probably blame the firm for this and not take any responsibility. The problem is that we all know what is wrong with the email, but obviously the student didn't. When the firm summarily revoked his offer, they did not explain exactly why. What is he supposed to learn from that? Don't send the email at all? The email was ok, but don't send it to the partner? Don't talk about commuting? Don't talk about business opportunities? Don't ask about splitting summers? All of the above?

It is like if someone comes to your door and your dog 1) barks, 2) jumps up on the person, and 3) licks their face. If you wait for all three to happen and then just yell and scream at him indiscriminately, how is he supposed to know which action(s) were unacceptable? Of course you know what you want, but you have not clearly communicated that to him objectively. So don't be surprised next time if he barks and jumps on the next visitor because he assumed that it was only item 3 that you were mad about (because it was the last thing he did before you got mad).