Top Law Schools

I know assistant federal public defender's generally get paid between GS-11 and GS-14 (step 10). Does anyone have an idea of how many years (out of law school) it takes to get to GS-14, and how the steps works (e.g. does a typical AFPD bump up grades each year and then bump up a step each year?)?

Anonymous User wrote:I know assistant federal public defender's generally get paid between GS-11 and GS-14 (step 10). Does anyone have an idea of how many years (out of law school) it takes to get to GS-14, and how the steps works (e.g. does a typical AFPD bump up grades each year and then bump up a step each year?)?

The office in my area advertises that you need a minimum of 5 years trial work experience and you have to have done jury trials.

Anonymous User wrote:I know assistant federal public defender's generally get paid between GS-11 and GS-14 (step 10). Does anyone have an idea of how many years (out of law school) it takes to get to GS-14, and how the steps works (e.g. does a typical AFPD bump up grades each year and then bump up a step each year?)?

Really depends office to office and budget to budget. Know a guy who went in a two years after a clerkship in years of plenty, moved up two pay grades in a year and a half. Then no one saw a grade promotion for three years after that. It's wildly idiosyncratic.

Citizen Genet wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I know assistant federal public defender's generally get paid between GS-11 and GS-14 (step 10). Does anyone have an idea of how many years (out of law school) it takes to get to GS-14, and how the steps works (e.g. does a typical AFPD bump up grades each year and then bump up a step each year?)?

Really depends office to office and budget to budget. Know a guy who went in a two years after a clerkship in years of plenty, moved up two pay grades in a year and a half. Then no one saw a grade promotion for three years after that. It's wildly idiosyncratic.

Wow, that's surprising. I was under the impression that it might have been more standardized (e.g. after 4 years and having done X, Y and Z). So it sounds like it's possible to move up to GS-14 within 5 years (if you're lucky)? ... If that's true, it sure beats how long it would take to see 6 figures at my current job, and it also doesn't require the law firm lifestyle. Frankly, I'd take it if GS-13 is reasonably attainable within 5 years (around $90k /year as a public defender, without a million years of experience, is pretty great).

If it's like anywhere else in the federal government and you are in an attorney position with a top grade of 14, you move up a grade every year (assuming good performance) so it would take 3 years to go up to 14--and then about 10 years to get to step 10 but by then you might get a 15.

Anonymous User wrote:

Citizen Genet wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I know assistant federal public defender's generally get paid between GS-11 and GS-14 (step 10). Does anyone have an idea of how many years (out of law school) it takes to get to GS-14, and how the steps works (e.g. does a typical AFPD bump up grades each year and then bump up a step each year?)?

Really depends office to office and budget to budget. Know a guy who went in a two years after a clerkship in years of plenty, moved up two pay grades in a year and a half. Then no one saw a grade promotion for three years after that. It's wildly idiosyncratic.

Wow, that's surprising. I was under the impression that it might have been more standardized (e.g. after 4 years and having done X, Y and Z). So it sounds like it's possible to move up to GS-14 within 5 years (if you're lucky)? ... If that's true, it sure beats how long it would take to see 6 figures at my current job, and it also doesn't require the law firm lifestyle. Frankly, I'd take it if GS-13 is reasonably attainable within 5 years (around $90k /year as a public defender, without a million years of experience, is pretty great).

Anonymous User wrote:If it's like anywhere else in the federal government and you are in an attorney position with a top grade of 14, you move up a grade every year (assuming good performance) so it would take 3 years to go up to 14--and then about 10 years to get to step 10 but by then you might get a 15.

Anonymous User wrote:

Citizen Genet wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I know assistant federal public defender's generally get paid between GS-11 and GS-14 (step 10). Does anyone have an idea of how many years (out of law school) it takes to get to GS-14, and how the steps works (e.g. does a typical AFPD bump up grades each year and then bump up a step each year?)?

Really depends office to office and budget to budget. Know a guy who went in a two years after a clerkship in years of plenty, moved up two pay grades in a year and a half. Then no one saw a grade promotion for three years after that. It's wildly idiosyncratic.

Wow, that's surprising. I was under the impression that it might have been more standardized (e.g. after 4 years and having done X, Y and Z). So it sounds like it's possible to move up to GS-14 within 5 years (if you're lucky)? ... If that's true, it sure beats how long it would take to see 6 figures at my current job, and it also doesn't require the law firm lifestyle. Frankly, I'd take it if GS-13 is reasonably attainable within 5 years (around $90k /year as a public defender, without a million years of experience, is pretty great).

Awesome to know! There are definitely attorneys at at my current job (state government) that make the equivalent GS-14, step 10, but it just takes FOREVER to get there. It sounds like I can short cut the process to seeing 6 figures to a few years (while not working more than 40 hours a week), which would be awesome. Thanks for the info!

I've been looking up some openings recently. I saw that the NDCal requires applicants to have served as a lead counsel defending a non-corporate client facing state or federal criminal charges.

--LinkRemoved--

Does this essentially mean that only state public defenders can apply? I guess in very rare cases, biglaw associates may be able to apply if they've done CJA cases pro bono.

Or a private criminal defense attorney.

Right. I guess my assumption was that there aren't too many private criminal defense attorneys that have the qualifications that FPDs typically want - T14, clerkship, etc. Even places like Morvillo Abramowitz or Bird Marella (private criminal defense firms that do have associates with those qualifications) are not going to have associates serve as lead counsel in criminal cases.

Anonymous User wrote:Right. I guess my assumption was that there aren't too many private criminal defense attorneys that have the qualifications that FPDs typically want - T14, clerkship, etc. Even places like Morvillo Abramowitz or Bird Marella (private criminal defense firms that do have associates with those qualifications) are not going to have associates serve as lead counsel in criminal cases.

I guess I'm not convinced T14 and clerkships are necessary, at least depending on the office. Most of the FPD in my district seem to have gone to state flagships, and I don't think any of them have clerked. This includes people who've been hired in the last two years. (I'm sure that's different in bigger/fancier markets, though I know someone who's an FPD in LA who went to Loyola and didn't clerk, too.) To your original point, though, to be fair, most of them worked as county PDs before going to the FPD.

Anonymous User wrote:Awesome to know! There are definitely attorneys at at my current job (state government) that make the equivalent GS-14, step 10, but it just takes FOREVER to get there. It sounds like I can short cut the process to seeing 6 figures to a few years (while not working more than 40 hours a week), which would be awesome. Thanks for the info!

In what universe do FPD's only work 40 hours a week?

Anonymous User wrote:
In what universe do FPD's only work 40 hours a week?

I interviewed for a summer internship with a FPD's of a division office of just three lawyers. He made it sound like the two other lawyers stick pretty close to a 40 hour work weeks.