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Current 1L at an upper T14, not diverse, shit grades so a return offer before OCI would be really nice...

Just got an offer today at a large firm, but this particular office has zero data on the internet, not on NALP (but the other offices are). The office is medium sized, but new, hence no vault/nalp info. Large but non-NY market. Not gonna say any more specifics.

I frankly have no idea how many SAs this office is even going to have, office has like 50-100 attys, but the firm has like 500-1000 attys or something.

Is it appropriate to ask about offer rates? I will almost 100% be accepting the offer but it would be really nice to know if they make 100% offers to come back for 2L etc... Should I just accept and try to figure out during the summer once I meet people? I

Do firms usually have the same policy on return offers/full-time offers across all offices, or can it vary between offices? Not really sure who I would even ask, call the managing partner?

I'm sure I'm not one ever to think about this so thanks for advice!!

As far as I'm aware, most 1L SA employment doesn't come with a 2L summer expectation, but I could be mistaken.

Edit: Didn't mean to anon. It's Yeshia90

Gift horses, mouths, and something.

Is it diversity or not? Many diversity programs don't come with any promises of a return offer. Non-diversity is usually different because there is no reason to offer a 1L a non-diversity spot other than to get them to come back after graduation.

ETA: You should probably take it regardless of the answer.

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NoChainz wrote:

bdubs wrote:Is it diversity or not? Many diversity programs don't come with any promises of a return offer. Non-diversity is usually different because there is no reason to offer a 1L a non-diversity spot other than to get them to come back after graduation.

ETA: You should probably take it regardless of the answer.

Isn't that the expectation with most diversity programs? - That you will hopefully come back and work for them? Otherwise why pay someone for a summer not expecting to bring them back...

Positive answer would be that it's hard to attract good minority talent and firms want "first shot" at hiring someone but don't want to commit if things don't work out.

Cynical answer is that firms want to boost the appearance of favoring minority candidates for full time positions without actually doing so.

Maybe its a mix of A & B, but I do know that it's a thing at some firms.

OP here.

Not a diversity position. Does that change the calculus at all?

Don't understand the predicament. (Shit grades +) 1L SA offer = accept.

Knowing the offer rate now as opposed to a couple of months from now shouldn't make much of a difference, and I imagine this office will follow what the firm does in other offices (unless this office is in Texas or something). Show up and do good work in the summer. If they offer you, great. If they don't offer you, it's probably because they don't offer 1L SAs. Either way, you're in a better position for 2L OCI than you would be without the 1L SA.

If you really want to know, one easy way would be to ask HR if you could talk to a prior 1L SA at that office (if any, depending on how new the office is). Or just ask HR straight up.

First of all you should definitely accept the offer regardless of the firm's offer rate.

Secondly, I think the thing to do is simply ask someone at HR how they usually handle 1L summers. Just ask something along the lines of whether they usually have 1Ls come back for a second summer or if it's typically just a one summer thing. You'll get a pretty clear picture of the situation once HR starts talking about it. Not a big deal, just don't be rude or arrogant or anything about it. Perfectly fine question

Thanks for the advice guys. I guess it's really just two things:

1) My career service office gave me a pretty strong caution about working at a firm 1L. Said if you work as a firm as a 1L and get no-offered, you're sorta fucked for OCI (or at least will have a huge up-hill battle compared to someone that just clerked for a judge or whatever.) And my grades would definitely not do anything to alleviate that.

2) I would really like to know but wouldn't want to do anything that could make me stand out negatively if it is a lower offer rate

Sounds like I'll probably just bring it up to HR once the summer starts at some point though, tyty

Anonymous User wrote:Said if you work as a firm as a 1L and get no-offered, you're sorta fucked for OCI (or at least will have a huge up-hill battle compared to someone that just clerked for a judge or whatever.) And my grades would definitely not do anything to alleviate that.

Lots of firms/offices don't give offers to 1Ls. If you simply say that your office doesn't normally give offers, it shouldn't be a problem (especially since there is no NALP information to the contrary).

Anonymous User wrote: I would really like to know but wouldn't want to do anything that could make me stand out negatively if it is a lower offer rate

Again, if they've had previous 1L SAs at tat office, simply ask if you can speak to one. And asking the HR should be pretty normal since your OCI plans could plausibly be dependent on this.

You also outed what school you go to in a portion of your response I didn't quote, in case that matters to you.

dead head wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Said if you work as a firm as a 1L and get no-offered, you're sorta fucked for OCI (or at least will have a huge up-hill battle compared to someone that just clerked for a judge or whatever.) And my grades would definitely not do anything to alleviate that.

Lots of firms/offices don't give offers to 1Ls. If you simply say that your office doesn't normally give offers, it shouldn't be a problem (especially since there is no NALP information to the contrary).

Anonymous User wrote: I would really like to know but wouldn't want to do anything that could make me stand out negatively if it is a lower offer rate

Again, if they've had previous 1L SAs at tat office, simply ask if you can speak to one. And asking the HR should be pretty normal since your OCI plans could plausibly be dependent on this.

Sounds reasonable, thanks for all the advice bud

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the advice guys. I guess it's really just two things:

1) My career service office gave me a pretty strong caution about working at a firm 1L. Said if you work as a firm as a 1L and get no-offered, you're sorta fucked for OCI (or at least will have a huge up-hill battle compared to someone that just clerked for a judge or whatever.) And my grades would definitely not do anything to alleviate that.

2) I would really like to know but wouldn't want to do anything that could make me stand out negatively if it is a lower offer rate

Sounds like I'll probably just bring it up to HR once the summer starts at some point though, tyty

Your career services gave terrible, terrible advice. I know multiple people who had 1L jobs at firms that do not always hire all of their summers. They didn't get offers. They had a ton of OCI offers and are going to be at top ranked Vault firms.

Working in a firm 1L summer gives you a ton of substantive stuff to talk about in interviews, and it gives you a real reason for showing an interest in a certain practice area.

Honestly, it's disturbing that your career services would give such bad information

sandiego222 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the advice guys. I guess it's really just two things:

1) My career service office gave me a pretty strong caution about working at a firm 1L. Said if you work as a firm as a 1L and get no-offered, you're sorta fucked for OCI (or at least will have a huge up-hill battle compared to someone that just clerked for a judge or whatever.) And my grades would definitely not do anything to alleviate that.

2) I would really like to know but wouldn't want to do anything that could make me stand out negatively if it is a lower offer rate

Sounds like I'll probably just bring it up to HR once the summer starts at some point though, tyty

Your career services gave terrible, terrible advice. I know multiple people who had 1L jobs at firms that do not always hire all of their summers. They didn't get offers. They had a ton of OCI offers and are going to be at top ranked Vault firms.

Working in a firm 1L summer gives you a ton of substantive stuff to talk about in interviews, and it gives you a real reason for showing an interest in a certain practice area.

Honestly, it's disturbing that your career services would give such bad information

No offered 1L at unranked firm. Summering at V20. Was never asked about it.