Top Law Schools

So I've been curious about how being an URM may help (or hurt) one's chances in legal recruiting.

Is being a URM seen as a "tie-breaker" between two equally qualified candidates? Or is it a deeper advantage or disadvantage?

Depends on the firm in terms of how much URM impacts the hiring decision.

In my experience, as a 2L having gone through OCI, being a URM helps in almost every case. I can only point to one experience (out of around 40 screeners/callbacks) where I think it may have hurt. Of course, you can never be sure of an interviewer's personal views towards minorities but I found a lot of success as a minority applicant.

No it's not. Quite frankly, law is not a career where diversity is heavily valued. Law schools put a lot of emphasis on it for a variety of reasons. But the legal profession itself doesn't because it's simply not very important when it comes to making money.

Once the legal economy plummeted this really ceased being a major concern for many of the big firms. They haven't cut their diversity scholar programs; but the standards for getting hired through them are not significantly different than they are for non diverse applicants. You need to go search through big firm profiles. You will quickly notice that there is a staggeringly low number of URM attorneys at all levels within big firms all across the country. You also need to consider how difficult it is, for cultural reasons, for a URM to succeed beyond a year or so in a big firm environment.

All that being said, grade cutoffs do differ in an interesting way for URMs at many of the large firms. URMs below the median are generally not treated any differently than any other applicant. At the median this is less true but it's still not a big boost. However, once you get into the top 1/3 that's where things start looking different. A top 20 percent (maybe even top 1/3) URM will often have a shot at firms that usually only hire applicants with top 10 percent or better grades. I know this for a fact about many of the big DC firms. Basically URM status won't change water into wine; but it can change Joseph Drouhin into Cristal.

Anonymous User wrote: All that being said, grade cutoffs do differ in an interesting way for URMs at many of the large firms. URMs below the median are generally not treated any differently than any other applicant. At the median this is less true but it's still not a big boost. However, once you get into the top 1/3 that's where things start looking different. A top 20 percent (maybe even top 1/3) URM will often have a shot at firms that usually only hire applicants with top 10 percent or better grades. I know this for a fact about many of the big DC firms. Basically URM status won't change water into wine; but it can change Joseph Drouhin into Cristal.

Your class placement figures are useless without knowing the law school range you're talking about.

Anonymous User wrote:No it's not. Quite frankly, law is not a career where diversity is heavily valued. Law schools put a lot of emphasis on it for a variety of reasons. But the legal profession itself doesn't because it's simply not very important when it comes to making money.

Once the legal economy plummeted this really ceased being a major concern for many of the big firms. They haven't cut their diversity scholar programs; but the standards for getting hired through them are not significantly different than they are for non diverse applicants. You need to go search through big firm profiles. You will quickly notice that there is a staggeringly low number of URM attorneys at all levels within big firms all across the country. You also need to consider how difficult it is, for cultural reasons, for a URM to succeed beyond a year or so in a big firm environment.

All that being said, grade cutoffs do differ in an interesting way for URMs at many of the large firms. URMs below the median are generally not treated any differently than any other applicant. At the median this is less true but it's still not a big boost. However, once you get into the top 1/3 that's where things start looking different. A top 20 percent (maybe even top 1/3) URM will often have a shot at firms that usually only hire applicants with top 10 percent or better grades. I know this for a fact about many of the big DC firms. Basically URM status won't change water into wine; but it can change Joseph Drouhin into Cristal.

This is the first Anonymous.

This has been far from the case in my experience in the NYC market. As I said earlier it depends on the firm but you'll find that for many firms that being an URM provides a significant boost regardless of class position. I've been through the recruiting process and have had callbacks and/or offers from many of the top firms in NYC.

I do go to a feeder school for big law firms which definitely plays a role

Anonymous User wrote:No it's not. Quite frankly, law is not a career where diversity is heavily valued. Law schools put a lot of emphasis on it for a variety of reasons. But the legal profession itself doesn't because it's simply not very important when it comes to making money.

This part isn't really correct. Firms care about diversity because their clients want to see diverse lawyers its that simple. So it is important when it comes to making money.

All that being said, grade cutoffs do differ in an interesting way for URMs at many of the large firms. URMs below the median are generally not treated any differently than any other applicant. At the median this is less true but it's still not a big boost. However, once you get into the top 1/3 that's where things start looking different. A top 20 percent (maybe even top 1/3) URM will often have a shot at firms that usually only hire applicants with top 10 percent or better grades. I know this for a fact about many of the big DC firms. Basically URM status won't change water into wine; but it can change Joseph Drouhin into Cristal.

This is mostly solid advice. However, I know some URMs below median to pull V15 firms from my T14. They are extremely social, and had great extracurriculars.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: All that being said, grade cutoffs do differ in an interesting way for URMs at many of the large firms. URMs below the median are generally not treated any differently than any other applicant. At the median this is less true but it's still not a big boost. However, once you get into the top 1/3 that's where things start looking different. A top 20 percent (maybe even top 1/3) URM will often have a shot at firms that usually only hire applicants with top 10 percent or better grades. I know this for a fact about many of the big DC firms. Basically URM status won't change water into wine; but it can change Joseph Drouhin into Cristal.

Your class placement figures are useless without knowing the law school range you're talking about.

Assumed he was talking T14

The URM boost is just as big for hiring at least at the t-14. Median and AA puts you in a very good spot. This came up randomly and isn't so politically correct, but a partner told me if I were a URM, the firms would be banging down my door. The firms take their diversity numbers very seriously particularly because anyone who can get around median is just as qualified to do the work. The high grades are really only beneficial because there's no other way to distinguish between a bunch of white kids with the same resumes.

Lacepiece23 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Your class placement figures are useless without knowing the law school range you're talking about.

Assumed he was talking T14

There are pretty large differences within the T14.

dead head wrote:

Lacepiece23 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Your class placement figures are useless without knowing the law school range you're talking about.

Assumed he was talking T14

There are pretty large differences within the T14.

I don't really think it makes as much of a difference for URMs. I honestly don't think the firms I got would have been that much different if I was at Columbia rather than Cornell.

Lacepiece23 wrote:

dead head wrote:

Lacepiece23 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Your class placement figures are useless without knowing the law school range you're talking about.

Assumed he was talking T14

There are pretty large differences within the T14.

I don't really think it makes as much of a difference for URMs. I honestly don't think the firms I got would have been that much different if I was at Columbia rather than Cornell.

Without knowing your GPA it would be difficult to have an opinion on that.

[\

I don't really think it makes as much of a difference for URMs. I honestly don't think the firms I got would have been that much different if I was at Columbia rather than Cornell.[/quote]
Without knowing your GPA it would be difficult to have an opinion on that.[/quote]

Above median. I know tons of ppl that got jobs below median with great personalities. However, I'm black so its probably a little different than a hispanic URM. If your an AA URM go to the T14 that gives you the most money. I did and don't regret it one bit. Had my pick, and believe that I would have with lower grades.

Lacepiece23 wrote: Above median. I know tons of ppl that got jobs below median with great personalities. However, I'm black so its probably a little different than a hispanic URM. If your an AA URM go to the T14 that gives you the most money. I did and don't regret it one bit. Had my pick, and believe that I would have with lower grades.

Cornell seems to do fairly well for everyone above median interested in NYC, URM or not. I definitely wouldn't feel so sanguine about going to Georgetown (and maybe Michigan), although if you do get Georgetown you should also get another T14 with more money.

dead head wrote:

Lacepiece23 wrote: Above median. I know tons of ppl that got jobs below median with great personalities. However, I'm black so its probably a little different than a hispanic URM. If your an AA URM go to the T14 that gives you the most money. I did and don't regret it one bit. Had my pick, and believe that I would have with lower grades.

Cornell seems to do fairly well for everyone above median interested in NYC, URM or not. I definitely wouldn't feel so sanguine about going to Georgetown (and maybe Michigan), although if you do get Georgetown you should also get another T14 with more money.

True... I didn't even end up in NYC. Wasn't interested. I guess I would say go the the T14 that gives u the most money except Gtown and Michigan. I can live with that.