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I'm a T2 transfer to a T14. I'll be a SA at a V20.

This is the first time I am taking exams at the T14, and I am nervous about the number of gunners with great jobs still gunning. I know nothing about the grading curve here, and I know nothing about my competition. Then I see here on TLS that the "2L chillaxin" attitude does not apply to transfers, and I am more uneasy. I am trying not to queue the "LOL if you don't have a 4.0 you'll get no-offered/cold-offered at all firms!!" flame poasts. But seriously, though, for transfers, does anyone have any experience with grade-drops and how it affects offers from SA? I did a search and couldn't find much info about transfers grade-dropping.

Your nerves are understandable, but you should be fine. Not exactly a major crop of transfer students bagging SAs then losing them due to below expectations performance at the new school (read: never heard of it happening).

I don't think you should worry about a grade drop. I transferred from a T-2 and everyone in my transfer class rocked the grades. Despite what people who advocate for the LSAT believe, there is really little difference in the ability of law students at different schools, especially near the top of the class. You will most likely be fine.

With regards to the SA, I think most (there are exceptions) firms include that language in offer letters so they have an excuse for no offering or rescinding offers to people if they suddenly need to trim their incoming class. I haven't heard of people actually losing offers because of grades except from a few firms that frequently get mentioned on this site. There are probably exceptions, but I would just relax and do your best.

I understand your worries. After getting an SA offer I felt I had something to lose and that fear accompanied me until graduation. A lot of people are wired this way, but you probably shouldn't worry about this. Most people either perform consistently well, consistently poorly or consistently average as far as GPA goes on a semester basis. No reason to expect lower grades at your new school.

At my HYS, the transfer kids tend to own the rest of us on BLL exams. Not to the same extent that they did in their previous school, but they do noticeably better than average.

Even if your grades do drop significantly, it's very unlikely that you'll be no-offered for grades unless you have a complete collapse. I summered at a grade sensitive firm that is rumored to no offer summers. My grades dropped significantly. Still got an offer.

Don't worry about it, but don't slack.

Anonymous User wrote:I don't think you should worry about a grade drop. I transferred from a T-2 and everyone in my transfer class rocked the grades. Despite what people who advocate for the LSAT believe, there is really little difference in the ability of law students at different schools, especially near the top of the class. You will most likely be fine.

With regards to the SA, I think most (there are exceptions) firms include that language in offer letters so they have an excuse for no offering or rescinding offers to people if they suddenly need to trim their incoming class. I haven't heard of people actually losing offers because of grades except from a few firms that frequently get mentioned on this site. There are probably exceptions, but I would just relax and do your best.

which firms are these?

Gibson Dunn requires 2L grades, 3L grades and cumulative GPA be above a 3.4. It's actually on their website in the recruiting section, and they have their own calculations for turning the combination of Hs, check marks, stickers and smiley faces awarded at Y/S/etc. into GPAs for the purposes of their rule.

Holy shit not flame

thesealocust wrote:Gibson Dunn requires 2L grades, 3L grades and cumulative GPA be above a 3.4. It's actually on their website in the recruiting section, and they have their own calculations for turning the combination of Hs, check marks, stickers and smiley faces awarded at Y/S/etc. into GPAs for the purposes of their rule.

ah, good to know. anyone else come to mind?

hichvichwoh wrote:

thesealocust wrote:Gibson Dunn requires 2L grades, 3L grades and cumulative GPA be above a 3.4. It's actually on their website in the recruiting section, and they have their own calculations for turning the combination of Hs, check marks, stickers and smiley faces awarded at Y/S/etc. into GPAs for the purposes of their rule.

ah, good to know. anyone else come to mind?

Curious is DPW, S&C, CSM require >3.4 2L and 3L gpa as well.

thesealocust wrote:Gibson Dunn requires 2L grades, 3L grades and cumulative GPA be above a 3.4. It's actually on their website in the recruiting section, and they have their own calculations for turning the combination of Hs, check marks, stickers and smiley faces awarded at Y/S/etc. into GPAs for the purposes of their rule.

hichvichwoh wrote:

thesealocust wrote:Gibson Dunn requires 2L grades, 3L grades and cumulative GPA be above a 3.4. It's actually on their website in the recruiting section, and they have their own calculations for turning the combination of Hs, check marks, stickers and smiley faces awarded at Y/S/etc. into GPAs for the purposes of their rule.

ah, good to know. anyone else come to mind?

Bro calm down.

Anonymous User wrote:

hichvichwoh wrote:

thesealocust wrote:Gibson Dunn requires 2L grades, 3L grades and cumulative GPA be above a 3.4. It's actually on their website in the recruiting section, and they have their own calculations for turning the combination of Hs, check marks, stickers and smiley faces awarded at Y/S/etc. into GPAs for the purposes of their rule.

ah, good to know. anyone else come to mind?

Curious is DPW, S&C, CSM require >3.4 2L and 3L gpa as well.

Also curious about the V5 and transfer grades... Pretty sure my grades are going to be shit this semester (straight P's are a realistic possibility).

GDC is the only one I know of with a formal 2L & 3L GPA requirement.

(For those of you playing along at home, my conscious is clear here)

thesealocust wrote:GDC is the only one I know of with a formal 2L & 3L GPA requirement.

(For those of you playing along at home, my conscious is clear here)

My V5 summer offer/acceptance letter says that it's contingent upon a satisfactory transcript. Is that just boilerplate language, or is this indicative that they'll be asking for (and looking at) my transcript?

Anonymous User wrote:

thesealocust wrote:GDC is the only one I know of with a formal 2L & 3L GPA requirement.

(For those of you playing along at home, my conscious is clear here)

My V5 summer offer/acceptance letter says that it's contingent upon a satisfactory transcript. Is that just boilerplate language, or is this indicative that they'll be asking for (and looking at) my transcript?

Sounds like they will be carefully scrutinizing your transcript.

thesealocust wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

thesealocust wrote:GDC is the only one I know of with a formal 2L & 3L GPA requirement.

(For those of you playing along at home, my conscious is clear here)

My V5 summer offer/acceptance letter says that it's contingent upon a satisfactory transcript. Is that just boilerplate language, or is this indicative that they'll be asking for (and looking at) my transcript?

Sounds like they will be carefully scrutinizing your transcript.

The reason transfers do well at their new schools is because they maintain the grind and everyone else quits because they have jobs. It has nothing to do with the LSAT.

Keep working and you'll be fine.

thesealocust wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

thesealocust wrote:GDC is the only one I know of with a formal 2L & 3L GPA requirement.

(For those of you playing along at home, my conscious is clear here)

My V5 summer offer/acceptance letter says that it's contingent upon a satisfactory transcript. Is that just boilerplate language, or is this indicative that they'll be asking for (and looking at) my transcript?

Sounds like they will be carefully scrutinizing your transcript.

Seriously bro...its funny. But its also kind of mean.

I mean, it's funny in a twisted way that some firms care so much about 2L and 3L grades, I guess. Obviously it's mean.

thesealocust wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

thesealocust wrote:GDC is the only one I know of with a formal 2L & 3L GPA requirement.

(For those of you playing along at home, my conscious is clear here)

My V5 summer offer/acceptance letter says that it's contingent upon a satisfactory transcript. Is that just boilerplate language, or is this indicative that they'll be asking for (and looking at) my transcript?

Sounds like they will be carefully scrutinizing your transcript.

I know the 2L/3L grades don't matter dead horse has been beaten, but it seems like it might be different for transfers and given the language of this letter I figured there might be reason to think that grades do matter for me. Whatever, flame on.

Alright on the real though. There are firms that care about grades but only if you aren't going to graduate from a top school. There is this general lack of caring about SA grades because that is not the type of thing that matters to hiring committees. But if you went to a school that is ranked 30 spots lower than all the other SAs or all the other lawyers at the firm, there is usually an unspoken sort of "what's the deal with this guy?" during the hiring meeting. It isn't a big deal if you have good grades. The convo will be like: "We have never hired anyone from TTT Law School before." "Yeah but he is number 2 in his class and he got along great with the transactional group." And that will be the end of it. But without the grades you need to have some other compelling reason to convince a hiring partner to dilute the perceived prestige of the firm for you. Again, that isn't the end of the world. If you have what I call a "champion" in the room you are still home free. Basically everyone on a hiring committee has had some limited interaction with you but they are generally relying on sample of your work product and reviews from other lawyers in order to make their decisions. It just takes one "champion" to really explain away any grade deficiency. Someone that says something like, "Yeah but Daryl is one of the best writers I have worked with in a long time. He really came through for us on several different projects this summer. I think he would be a great addition my practice group." Or some BS similar to that. But what you don't want to happen is to have a question about your grades or about your work product to come up and to have no one in the room to vouch for you.

If only we had some kind of precise, widely reported and obvious way to figure out how hard it was to keep grades strong enough to land an offer after spending a summer at a firm.