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I have an offer on the table from these two firms. I felt an extremely different vibe at both places and wanted to hear the TLS brilliance...

My gathering is that Skadden is more for the "fratty" (for lack of better words) personality whereas S&C is a bit more straight-laced and stiff.

Am I correct on this? Do I make a decision based on this consideration (if you couldn't infer, I'm a looser personality, and while I am very serious with work and what it at the highest level with the best training, I still want to have a good office vibe).

Additionally I am going to be going to Cravath, DPW, Debevoise, PW and Simpson- wondering where you all think those fall into the cultural spectrum.

Thanks in advance.

Anonymous User wrote:I have an offer on the table from these two firms. I felt an extremely different vibe at both places and wanted to hear the TLS brilliance...

My gathering is that Skadden is more for the "fratty" (for lack of better words) personality whereas S&C is a bit more straight-laced and stiff.

Am I correct on this? Do I make a decision based on this consideration (if you couldn't infer, I'm a looser personality, and while I am very serious with work and what it at the highest level with the best training, I still want to have a good office vibe).

Additionally I am going to be going to Cravath, DPW, Debevoise, PW and Simpson- wondering where you all think those fall into the cultural spectrum.

Thanks in advance.

At that level I would go with feel. I think Skadden has better M&A. They are definitely peer firms. When I interviewed with each, I loved Skadden and would never go to SullCrom....but thats a personal decision based on people at the two.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I have an offer on the table from these two firms. I felt an extremely different vibe at both places and wanted to hear the TLS brilliance...

My gathering is that Skadden is more for the "fratty" (for lack of better words) personality whereas S&C is a bit more straight-laced and stiff.

Am I correct on this? Do I make a decision based on this consideration (if you couldn't infer, I'm a looser personality, and while I am very serious with work and what it at the highest level with the best training, I still want to have a good office vibe).

Additionally I am going to be going to Cravath, DPW, Debevoise, PW and Simpson- wondering where you all think those fall into the cultural spectrum.

Thanks in advance.

At that level I would go with feel. I think Skadden has better M&A. They are definitely peer firms. When I interviewed with each, I loved Skadden and would never go to SullCrom....but thats a personal decision based on people at the two.

SKadden definitely doesnt have better M&A

OP here-

Def. interested in M&A at least at this stage but I do agree that S&C prob has equal M&A.

I am concerned that Skadden won't throw me into things the way S&C does and I'd "grow" more at S&C with prestige as opposed to the happiness of social environment I'd get at Skadden...

Anonymous User wrote:OP here-

Def. interested in M&A at least at this stage but I do agree that S&C prob has equal M&A.

I am concerned that Skadden won't throw me into things the way S&C does and I'd "grow" more at S&C with prestige as opposed to the happiness of social environment I'd get at Skadden...

I dont think that the prestige difference is that great, though I agree there may be a slight difference. I just dont think your lateral or exit opportunities are going to be better from S&C than Skadden

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I have an offer on the table from these two firms. I felt an extremely different vibe at both places and wanted to hear the TLS brilliance...

My gathering is that Skadden is more for the "fratty" (for lack of better words) personality whereas S&C is a bit more straight-laced and stiff.

Am I correct on this? Do I make a decision based on this consideration (if you couldn't infer, I'm a looser personality, and while I am very serious with work and what it at the highest level with the best training, I still want to have a good office vibe).

Additionally I am going to be going to Cravath, DPW, Debevoise, PW and Simpson- wondering where you all think those fall into the cultural spectrum.

Thanks in advance.

At that level I would go with feel. I think Skadden has better M&A. They are definitely peer firms. When I interviewed with each, I loved Skadden and would never go to SullCrom....but thats a personal decision based on people at the two.

SKadden definitely doesnt have better M&A

Okay, they are likely pretty equal. But Vault says that Skadden is #1 overall corp and #2 M&A. I know vault is not the best ranking system, but Chambers has them both in band 1... so I dont know what puts SullCrom above Skadden besides TLS groupthink?

Just go with the place you think you'd feel most comfortable. The rankings at this level don't matter. Both are very good and your exit options won't be any different. S&C is more stuffy and white shoe while Skadden is more fratty and go go. Figure out which one you think you'd like. Go back and visit with juniors.

Anonymous User wrote: Okay, they are likely pretty equal. But Vault says that Skadden is #1 overall corp and #2 M&A. I know vault is not the best ranking system, but Chambers has them both in band 1... so I dont know what puts SullCrom above Skadden besides TLS groupthink?

It comes from having a basic understanding of Vault rankings work, not "groupthink." Vault's methodology essentially entails mass mailing surveys to junior associates asking them to rank "reputation" and "prestige." Skadden is of course very good, but everyone knows they are disproportionately represented by virtue of being gigantic. NALP has Skadden's total count at 1772 attorneys compared to SullCrom at 785. When some random first-year litigation associate in Dallas is ranking the top M&A firm in the world, he's far more likely to have heard of Skadden by virtue of it being so much larger and geographically dispersed than most of its peers. It is for this reason that citing to Vault to say Skadden is definitively "better" than a peer firm at anything generally viewed as asinine.

.

equality7-2521 wrote:

KidStuddi wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Okay, they are likely pretty equal. But Vault says that Skadden is #1 overall corp and #2 M&A. I know vault is not the best ranking system, but Chambers has them both in band 1... so I dont know what puts SullCrom above Skadden besides TLS groupthink?

It comes from having a basic understanding of Vault rankings work, not "groupthink." Vault's methodology essentially entails mass mailing surveys to junior associates asking them to rank "reputation" and "prestige." Skadden is of course very good, but everyone knows they are disproportionately represented by virtue of being gigantic. NALP has Skadden's total count at 1772 attorneys compared to SullCrom at 785. Citing to Vault to say Skadden is "better" than a peer firm at anything is asinine.

Basic understanding of Vault methodology: associates aren't allowed to rank their own firm.

Already edited to clarify my point. See above.

KidStuddi wrote:

equality7-2521 wrote:

KidStuddi wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Okay, they are likely pretty equal. But Vault says that Skadden is #1 overall corp and #2 M&A. I know vault is not the best ranking system, but Chambers has them both in band 1... so I dont know what puts SullCrom above Skadden besides TLS groupthink?

It comes from having a basic understanding of Vault rankings work, not "groupthink." Vault's methodology essentially entails mass mailing surveys to junior associates asking them to rank "reputation" and "prestige." Skadden is of course very good, but everyone knows they are disproportionately represented by virtue of being gigantic. NALP has Skadden's total count at 1772 attorneys compared to SullCrom at 785. Citing to Vault to say Skadden is "better" than a peer firm at anything is asinine.

Basic understanding of Vault methodology: associates aren't allowed to rank their own firm.

Already edited to clarify my point. See above.

You didnt answer the question. Point to what says that S&C is better than Skadden? I was saying they are equal, exit options will be equal, etc.

Sullcrom abuses their associates and the firm culture is toxic. Two good friends from law school left after one year. If you have a chance to do a second look ask how many 1/2nd years are left at the firm. That's a good indication of how well a firm treats their juniors.

Disclosure: 2nd year associate at peer firm. Had offer at sullcrom-very grateful I did not accept. Go there if prestige is that important to you.

Anonymous User wrote:Sullcrom abuses their associates and the firm culture is toxic. Two good friends from law school left after one year. If you have a chance to do a second look ask how many 1/2nd years are left at the firm. That's a good indication of how well a firm treats their juniors.

Disclosure: 2nd year associate at peer firm. Had offer at sullcrom-very grateful I did not accept. Go there if prestige is that important to you.

So this comment freaked me out and so I went through the S&C site to see how many associates were in each year (by law school graduation year). In case anyone is interested:

No idea how many these classes started with and the info online is confusing. It says stuff like: Summer Class 137, eligible for offers, 77, offered 76. It also doesn't include people who are currently clerking.

Total Rising Thirds:77
Total Rising Seconds:77

NYC- 335 (total associates)

Rising Third-59
Rising Second-63

Beijing-4
None

Frankfurt-13
Rising Third-2
Rising Second-3

Hong Kong-13
Rising Third-1
Rising Second-1

London-37
Rising Third-4
Rising Second-3

Los Angeles-18
Rising Third-2
Rising Second-4

Melbourne-3
Rising Third-2

Palo Alto-15
Rising Third-3
Rising Second-2

Paris-11
Rising Third-3

Sydney-4
Rising Third-2

Tokyo-7
Rising Third-2
Rising Second-2

DC-18
None

^ wow