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Girlfriend, soon to be fiancee wants to be in city X it has highly ranked colleges for her doctorate degree that she most likely will get into.... applying this year. I have a big law offer in city Y, although I like the city....I am not psyched about the law firm. Still have one year to apply to clerkships and jobs in city X.
If I choose the offer, We will probably break up.
What should I do?

Big law offer.

fiancee > Offer. Reason being if you have the stat to get the BigLaw offer, you can probably get a job in the other city as well.

But honestly, if she broke up with you because you accepted a job, you might want to reconsider the relationship...

kyle010723 wrote:fiancee > Offer. Reason being if you have the stat to get the BigLaw offer, you can probably get a job in the other city as well.

But honestly, if she broke up with you because you accepted a job, you might want to reconsider the relationship...

Exactly my point. I'm a romantic and I would choose to go to a school to be closer to my fiancee. But I have to know she'd be willing to do the same for me. She can. Right now. If not,

Hence:

ManoftheHour wrote:Big law offer.

Tell her she can't get the doctorate. Doctorates are fucking shit boomer flame. If she leaves, she leaves. She'll leave you anyway if you are no jerb.

Oh yeah... a board of anonymous posters is a great place to ask a deeply personal question.

Pokemon wrote:Oh yeah... a board of anonymous posters is a great place to ask a deeply personal question.

That's kind of the point I was trying to get across. If you have to ask (especially on a board of anonymous posters)...well, you already know the answer.

Hence:

ManoftheHour wrote:Big law offer.

Y'all make me feel like a sap. I feel like her dreams, getting a great degree and teaching at a good school, are more important the an my relatively more portable law degree. Assume lower T 14, top 1/3.

Pokemon wrote:Oh yeah... a board of anonymous posters is a great place to ask a deeply personal question.

Bro, I understand your skepticism but I'm having a difficult time and have always appreciated this forum's advice so give me a break.

Does the firm in city Y have an office in city X?

Anonymous User wrote:Y'all make me feel like a sap. I feel like her dreams, getting a great degree and teaching at a good school, are more important the an my relatively more portable law degree. Assume lower T 14, top 1/3.

But this requires you to relocate AT LEAST twice in the next decade. First to City Y. And then to City Z, which might some place in the middle of nowhere. If she even gets a job.

I'm moving to a new city for my fiance, but I got a job there and she isn't going to move to bum fuck egypt to teach at Southern Kansas University in 5 years.

Anonymous User wrote:Does the firm in city Y have an office in city X?

Yes, but I won't be able to work in that office (its tiny and generally firm doesn't allow people to summer in one office and work in another).

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Does the firm in city Y have an office in city X?

Yes, but I won't be able to work in that office (its tiny and generally firm doesn't allow people to summer in one office and work in another).

Have you asked someone you trust from your summer about this? Concrete words from someone's mouth?

I have no ideas how firm's view commitments to fiancees when deciding these things.

Anonymous User wrote:Y'all make me feel like a sap. I feel like her dreams, getting a great degree and teaching at a good school, are more important the an my relatively more portable law degree. Assume lower T 14, top 1/3.

Can she not attend a school in City Y? Also, I feel like maybe you are being overly optimistic. Clerkships are not guaranteed for top 1/3 of t14 and neither is finding a job 3L. I also don't know what field or what school your fiancee is looking at, but academic jobs are not guaranteed either. Giving up your solid offer for the chance at another job and the chance for your fiancee to get into a good school and then the chance for her to get a teaching position sounds very risky to me. Of course, the equation changes a lot if you have relatively low debt.

Anonymous User wrote:

Pokemon wrote:Oh yeah... a board of anonymous posters is a great place to ask a deeply personal question.

Bro, I understand your skepticism but I'm having a difficult time and have always appreciated this forum's advice so give me a break.

Ok... from what you have mentioned it sounds like your fiancee is being unreasonable.

Here is the thing: you have an offer, a career, a good paying job.
The other thing is that you have no guarantee if you refuse the offer that you will land on your feet. Absolutely no guarantee. So, you have a ton to lose by following your fiancee advice.

Your fiancee on the other hand, from what I am reading, has not even been accepted to the doctorate program of that school. (nevermind how unpredictable the academic legal market is). She has not yet even been accepted yet, not a student (why is she even moving there anyways?)

She is basically asking to let go of the bird you have caught in your hands, with no other birds in sight, so she can throw a stone at a bird located at a tree, without a guarantee that the stone will hit the bird, and also with the knowledge that her bird will not be as good as your bird. (cannot tell, but if there are puns on my posting, they are intended.)

Yeah, but once she gets that doctorate, she'll be almost guaranteed to get a teaching job in an amazing market and you will kill it together.

Kikero wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Y'all make me feel like a sap. I feel like her dreams, getting a great degree and teaching at a good school, are more important the an my relatively more portable law degree. Assume lower T 14, top 1/3.

Can she not attend a school in City Y? Also, I feel like maybe you are being overly optimistic. Clerkships are not guaranteed for top 1/3 of t14 and neither is finding a job 3L. I also don't know what field or what school your fiancee is looking at, but academic jobs are not guaranteed either. Giving up your solid offer for the chance at another job and the chance for your fiancee to get into a good school and then the chance for her to get a teaching position sounds very risky to me. Of course, the equation changes a lot if you have relatively low debt.

Let's say 70k for debt before interest. I am planning on paying 90-100k overall. There are not schools in the city that I have a job. For her its either city X or other large cities that I have 0 ties to.

jkay wrote:Yeah, but once she gets that doctorate, she'll be almost guaranteed hope to get a teaching job in a amazingmarket and you will kill it together.

I know someone who did a PhD in chemistry, working at a consulting firm, from a top school, and he told me that his chances of getting an academic job (prior to his consulting firm gig) were not at all good.

Pokemon wrote:
Ok... from what you have mentioned it sounds like your fiancee is being unreasonable.

Here is the thing: you have an offer, a career, a good paying job.
The other thing is that you have no guarantee if you refuse the offer that you will land on your feet. Absolutely no guarantee. So, you have a ton to lose by following your fiancee advice.

Your fiancee on the other hand, from what I am reading, has not even been accepted to the doctorate program of that school. (nevermind how unpredictable the academic legal market is). She has not yet even been accepted yet, not a student (why is she even moving there anyways?)

She is basically asking to let go of the bird you have caught in your hands, with no other birds in sight, so she can throw a stone at a bird located at a tree, without a guarantee that the stone will hit the bird, and also with the knowledge that her bird will not be as good as your bird. (cannot tell, but if there are puns on my posting, they are intended.)

This man. So much this. You got big law, dude. That's more than she'll ever make (per year). It's guaranteed. Her position (whatever it is) is not. She should be catering to you, not the other way around. If my fiancee had a higher paying guaranteed job, I'd just go to school near her job. I mean, how committed are you guys? This isn't even a close call. If it were me and my fiancee, we'd go where the guaranteed money takes us. The other one will just figure it out. We'd figure it out together. Rather have one high paying job than nothing.

Do people forget the divorce rate is 60% your SO shouldn't be holding your dreams hostage and guilt tripping you into tailoring your life to her dreams. Clearly you already have some doubts about this relationship or you wouldn't be here asking a bunch of strangers this question. I've seen too many bitter old people resent their exes or spouses bc they feel like they had to give up a part of themselves to make the other person happy-go for the big law offer.

Your relationship sounds nowhere near ready for marriage.

This is hardly an unworkable situation, but it sounds like both of you have dug in and can only view the world through "you vs. me" lenses, rather than "us." Your fiancé hasn't even applied to programs yet. Neither of you have any idea if she will get in. You have a BigLaw offer that you are meh about. In this economy you should keep your bird in the hand. Apply for clerkships near your girlfriend's desired location. If you get one, great. Tell your firm that you have a clerkship. That will usually put your offer on hold. If not, wait to see if your girlfriend gets in. You can look for a job in that area, but it will probably make more sense to do the long distance thing for a little while. Coordinating two careers requires taking a long view of your relationship. You aren't in love with your offer, but it will pay the bills and will set you up to have other opportunities in the future. Don't give that up until you have somewhere to land. By the time your girlfriend is done with her PhD (if that happens), you will probably be ready to get the f--- out of firm life anyway. Getting an in-house spot in random college town could be ideal.

Your relationship should be more flexible than the job market. If it isn't, it isn't likely to last anyway.

I'm going to add a different perspective. I'm in an international long-distance marriage with my husband because we just couldn't make working/studying in the same city work. I know several other married law students in my class who are also in long-distance situations. It's part of the difficulty with millennials' lives. So it doesn't have to be an either-or decision.

One suggestion is to take turns making sacrifices for each other. In my case, my husband (a foreigner) sacrificed a good job in his home country to move to the US and be with me. After he got into Harvard, I sacrificed going to a T-14 to be with him in Boston. When work forced him abroad, he decided it was my turn to decide where to settle next. So in your case, you can take turns. It can definitely be frustrating giving up better job/study opportunities, but if you both do it for each other, and if you both truly love each other, you can make it work.

However, what worries me is that you say you are going to break up if you can't live in the same city. If you break up over something like that, how will you survive marriage and all of its trials? I think you need to seriously think about that before taking the plunge.

I wish you all the best in making your decision!

Anonymous User wrote:We will probably break up.

If your saying this, see the writing on the wall dude.


You guys are already done. Have fun with big law.

Don't you, right now, have plenty of time to try to get a job in her preferred city before you have to commit to your firm?

Anonymous User wrote:Girlfriend, soon to be fiancee wants to be in city X it has highly ranked colleges for her doctorate degree that she most likely will get into.... applying this year. I have a big law offer in city Y, although I like the city....I am not psyched about the law firm. Still have one year to apply to clerkships and jobs in city X.
If I choose the offer, We will probably break up.
What should I do?

First thought: You don't think your relationship can withstand long distance, but you're about to propose? Meh...

Second thought: If you don't like the firm, then maybe you should decline the offer and follow your girlfriend to city Y. Just be realistic. Job market sucks and it may be difficult for you to find a job if you forgo the big law opportunity. Also, take a good look at your relationship before you make any brash moves. You don't want to end up resenting her if you give up your offer and can't find a comparable job, or any job at all.