. Forum
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
-
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:31 pm
- 84651846190
- Posts: 2198
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
Lit associate here working on a high profile case (i.e., front page of the WSJ on at least one occasion).
I work like a slave when there's work, and I worry about finding enough work when there's no work.
I have never had a "typical" schedule. It varies dramatically week by week and depends on so many factors that it would be impossible for me to include all of them in one Internet post. I think it's particularly bad for junior associates (like me) because you have no one you can pass off work to, unless you beg your senior associate to get you more help (but people inevitably do a shitty job if they're forced to help on a case they're not interested in/have no stake in).
I work seven days a week, usually fewer hours on the weekend but still at least a half day on Saturday and Sunday. As soon as discovery ends, however, things should calm down significantly for me. But perhaps that's just wishful thinking. I usually get up around 8, but I may not go to work immediately if I have early morning conference calls (because I can just join them from my apartment). I leave work around 6-7 and eat dinner. If I'm really slammed, I'll work from home until 1 or 2 in the morning and then wake back up at 8am again and do it all over again.
How long I work intensely on something varies dramatically depending on the deadline, the complexity of the task, how much more complex it gets as I unravel what actually needs to be done, how long it takes for paralegals/my secretary/discovery people to get back to me, etc. Biglaw work is not a series of discrete tasks that you can look at ex ante and make an accurate judgment about how long it will take you. You work until the task is done. Period. If that means all-nighters, so be it. Granted, I'm at a firm that staffs leanly and doesn't hire and fire people based on the economy, so when we're busy, we're busy as fuck.
When I'm not working intensely, I do quite a bit of fantasizing about not working in biglaw, tits, steaks, etc. I'd say this kind of thing comprises about 15-25% of my time when I'm not in a rush. It actually improves my work product to chill out and take breaks as far as I can tell.
I have no fucking idea how people with families can do this job and not get divorced/hated by their kids. Maybe it's better at other firms?
I work like a slave when there's work, and I worry about finding enough work when there's no work.
I have never had a "typical" schedule. It varies dramatically week by week and depends on so many factors that it would be impossible for me to include all of them in one Internet post. I think it's particularly bad for junior associates (like me) because you have no one you can pass off work to, unless you beg your senior associate to get you more help (but people inevitably do a shitty job if they're forced to help on a case they're not interested in/have no stake in).
I work seven days a week, usually fewer hours on the weekend but still at least a half day on Saturday and Sunday. As soon as discovery ends, however, things should calm down significantly for me. But perhaps that's just wishful thinking. I usually get up around 8, but I may not go to work immediately if I have early morning conference calls (because I can just join them from my apartment). I leave work around 6-7 and eat dinner. If I'm really slammed, I'll work from home until 1 or 2 in the morning and then wake back up at 8am again and do it all over again.
How long I work intensely on something varies dramatically depending on the deadline, the complexity of the task, how much more complex it gets as I unravel what actually needs to be done, how long it takes for paralegals/my secretary/discovery people to get back to me, etc. Biglaw work is not a series of discrete tasks that you can look at ex ante and make an accurate judgment about how long it will take you. You work until the task is done. Period. If that means all-nighters, so be it. Granted, I'm at a firm that staffs leanly and doesn't hire and fire people based on the economy, so when we're busy, we're busy as fuck.
When I'm not working intensely, I do quite a bit of fantasizing about not working in biglaw, tits, steaks, etc. I'd say this kind of thing comprises about 15-25% of my time when I'm not in a rush. It actually improves my work product to chill out and take breaks as far as I can tell.
I have no fucking idea how people with families can do this job and not get divorced/hated by their kids. Maybe it's better at other firms?
-
- Posts: 428543
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
My fiance has already made it clear that we won't be having any kids until big firm time is over (and I sincerely hope she holds me to that). I'm not going to be an absent father, and I don't see how one can be anything but an absent parent when working big firm hours.
-
- Posts: 428543
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
So, I'm just a summer at a firm ranked very highly by Vault for quality of life. My impression is that as you move up the chain, the hours get more and more intense. It seems rare for junior or mid-level associates to continuously work seven days a week, and most associates that I have talked with seem to have enjoyable weekends where they don't have to work all the time. I've been around the office at 7 AM, 8 PM, and the weekend, and while there may be a person or two, the vast majority of the office is gone.
- homestyle28
- Posts: 2362
- Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:48 pm
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
Biglaw in NY =/= Biglaw in Chicago. There's a WORLD of difference between billing 2000 and billing 2500+ as far as quality of life.
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 18203
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
Factoring in some inefficiency, we are talking nearly 2 hours extra work M-Sat, 50 weeks a year.homestyle28 wrote:Biglaw in NY =/= Biglaw in Chicago. There's a WORLD of difference between billing 2000 and billing 2500+ as far as quality of life.
-
- Posts: 1027
- Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:35 am
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
Are you in NYC?Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Lit associate here working on a high profile case (i.e., front page of the WSJ on at least one occasion).
I work like a slave when there's work, and I worry about finding enough work when there's no work.
I have never had a "typical" schedule. It varies dramatically week by week and depends on so many factors that it would be impossible for me to include all of them in one Internet post. I think it's particularly bad for junior associates (like me) because you have no one you can pass off work to, unless you beg your senior associate to get you more help (but people inevitably do a shitty job if they're forced to help on a case they're not interested in/have no stake in).
I work seven days a week, usually fewer hours on the weekend but still at least a half day on Saturday and Sunday. As soon as discovery ends, however, things should calm down significantly for me. But perhaps that's just wishful thinking. I usually get up around 8, but I may not go to work immediately if I have early morning conference calls (because I can just join them from my apartment). I leave work around 6-7 and eat dinner. If I'm really slammed, I'll work from home until 1 or 2 in the morning and then wake back up at 8am again and do it all over again.
How long I work intensely on something varies dramatically depending on the deadline, the complexity of the task, how much more complex it gets as I unravel what actually needs to be done, how long it takes for paralegals/my secretary/discovery people to get back to me, etc. Biglaw work is not a series of discrete tasks that you can look at ex ante and make an accurate judgment about how long it will take you. You work until the task is done. Period. If that means all-nighters, so be it. Granted, I'm at a firm that staffs leanly and doesn't hire and fire people based on the economy, so when we're busy, we're busy as fuck.
When I'm not working intensely, I do quite a bit of fantasizing about not working in biglaw, tits, steaks, etc. I'd say this kind of thing comprises about 15-25% of my time when I'm not in a rush. It actually improves my work product to chill out and take breaks as far as I can tell.
I have no fucking idea how people with families can do this job and not get divorced/hated by their kids. Maybe it's better at other firms?
- Tiago Splitter
- Posts: 17148
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
I'm not sure if you mean 2 hours a day or 2 hours a week. Either way lolno.Desert Fox wrote:Factoring in some inefficiency, we are talking nearly 2 hours extra work M-Sat, 50 weeks a year.homestyle28 wrote:Biglaw in NY =/= Biglaw in Chicago. There's a WORLD of difference between billing 2000 and billing 2500+ as far as quality of life.
-
- Posts: 1027
- Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:35 am
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
He means 2 hrs/day. 2*6*50 = 600.Tiago Splitter wrote:I'm not sure if you mean 2 hours a day or 2 hours a week. Either way lolno.Desert Fox wrote:Factoring in some inefficiency, we are talking nearly 2 hours extra work M-Sat, 50 weeks a year.homestyle28 wrote:Biglaw in NY =/= Biglaw in Chicago. There's a WORLD of difference between billing 2000 and billing 2500+ as far as quality of life.
I work about 10 hours to bill 9, so DF is probably not far off.
- 84651846190
- Posts: 2198
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
I'm not going to say which market I'm in, but it's a major market for my practice area.
- Homelandsagreatshow
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:19 pm
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
cough SV/SFBiglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:I'm not going to say which market I'm in, but it's a major market for my practice area.
- dood
- Posts: 1639
- Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:59 am
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
Same answer to all your questions. You need to bill 2000 hours, which is roughly 40-45 a week. The good firms care less about how you do it, when you come in and leave. No one is looking over your back so you can surf the web all day, walk around socializing, as I do frequently. But you still have to bill one way or another. You'll be expected to work whenever necessary - which may include weekends and literally every waking hour of the weekend. But sometimes when not busy I don't even go into the office at all. Sometimes I workout at 6PM then bill a few more at night. Sometimes I take Fri, Sat off and make up Friday on Sunday night. It really varies from firm to firm, but no matter what - you just need to bill those 2000 hours a year.billables247 wrote:I've always heard that Biglaw hours are bad, but could somebody who is currently working at a BigLaw firm break down how these hours are distributed?
A few factors I'm interested in are:
1) When you wake up and leave for work?
2) When you get out?
3) How long do you spend working intensely vs how long you socialize/have lunch/surf the web?
4) How often do you work on weekends and for how many hours?
5) How many hours do you work after you get home?
6) ... any other relevant data points
I would love to know how things differ for the above items for a good, average, and crazy week.
Thanks!
- dood
- Posts: 1639
- Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:59 am
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
I think me and Biglaw_Associate_V20 are on the same page, although I'm at a lower V100. The biggest fucking joke is that efficiency is not rewarded. No clear definite goals - besides bill.
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- Tiago Splitter
- Posts: 17148
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
Ahh damn my bad wasn't thinking good.run26.2 wrote:He means 2 hrs/day. 2*6*50 = 600.Tiago Splitter wrote:I'm not sure if you mean 2 hours a day or 2 hours a week. Either way lolno.Desert Fox wrote:Factoring in some inefficiency, we are talking nearly 2 hours extra work M-Sat, 50 weeks a year.homestyle28 wrote:Biglaw in NY =/= Biglaw in Chicago. There's a WORLD of difference between billing 2000 and billing 2500+ as far as quality of life.
I work about 10 hours to bill 9, so DF is probably not far off.
Of course it isn't really normal to bill 2500+ in NYC but maybe 2000 in Chicago is also high.
-
- Posts: 1027
- Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:35 am
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
This statement should be qualified a bit. It is unlikely that a young associate will see some direct benefit of being efficient, so in that regard, your statement is probably accurate. However, whether it is valuable for the firm will depend on a few factors, including the client, the liability, and the billing arrangement for the particular matter.dood wrote:I think me and Biglaw_Associate_V20 are on the same page, although I'm at a lower V100. The biggest fucking joke is that efficiency is not rewarded. No clear definite goals - besides bill.
-
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:37 pm
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
efficiency is incredibly important. what really matters is how you "efficiently" you "bill" that work.run26.2 wrote:This statement should be qualified a bit. It is unlikely that a young associate will see some direct benefit of being efficient, so in that regard, your statement is probably accurate. However, whether it is valuable for the firm will depend on a few factors, including the client, the liability, and the billing arrangement for the particular matter.dood wrote:I think me and Biglaw_Associate_V20 are on the same page, although I'm at a lower V100. The biggest fucking joke is that efficiency is not rewarded. No clear definite goals - besides bill.
-
- Posts: 428543
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
This is not entirely true. It's accurate that total volume of hours is the most important variable, but in certain types of fast-paced corporate work (M&A, finance, etc.), it is absolutely important how quickly you can turn a draft or respond to a client query. Maybe for certain types of work (doc review, diligence, assembling a closing binder, etc.), efficiency is less important, but doing good work fast is something people will notice.dood wrote:I think me and Biglaw_Associate_V20 are on the same page, although I'm at a lower V100. The biggest fucking joke is that efficiency is not rewarded. No clear definite goals - besides bill.
Note that I realize I might be conflating two potentially distinct skills-- efficiency and ability to meet tight deadlines-- that might not necessarily match perfectly (insofar as the partner might not care whether you finished a task in an hour and a half or whether you stayed up all night to finish it). But if it regularly takes you longer to do something than the partner/senior associate thinks it ought to take you, they're going to be annoyed both because they'll have to write down your hours but also because they're going to be regularly waiting on your work.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:54 pm
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
There is no norm, as people work differently.
I am in litigation at a smaller V100 firm. If I generalize about my habits, I like to get in early and work constantly throughout the day so I can nearly bill the entire time I am in the office, aside from about 30min to an hour per day. I typically get in around 8-8:30, and leave around 6:30. I end up having to stay later than that 1 night a week or so. I've found I need to work a few weekend days a month, usually because of a brief being due.
The exception to this is the ~2 months before and encompassing trial. That's crazy times.
I am in litigation at a smaller V100 firm. If I generalize about my habits, I like to get in early and work constantly throughout the day so I can nearly bill the entire time I am in the office, aside from about 30min to an hour per day. I typically get in around 8-8:30, and leave around 6:30. I end up having to stay later than that 1 night a week or so. I've found I need to work a few weekend days a month, usually because of a brief being due.
The exception to this is the ~2 months before and encompassing trial. That's crazy times.
-
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:36 am
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
lol @ thinking getting into work at 8AM is "early"
-
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:54 pm
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
Compared to the other attorneys I work with, this might as well be the middle of the night. The office is unlit when I arrive and very few people are there. I like the 1.5-2 hours of "quiet time" I get in the morning to get my thoughts together, wrap up something with a fresh pair of eyes, have my coffee and breakfast without stressed out attorneys calling me, etc.Jimbo_Jones wrote:lol @ thinking getting into work at 8AM is "early"
-
- Posts: 428543
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
Everything varies. If big law were a consistent 60 hours per week I don't think it would be that bad. But it's not. Some weeks there won't be much going on, which means I'll be in the office from 9-5 and spend a lot of that time socializing and browsing the Internet. Other weeks will be super busy and I'll bill well over 80 hours. Unfortunately, especially as a junior associate, you often have no idea when the slow and busy times will occur.
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 1565
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
Most people get in at 930 or 10.Jimbo_Jones wrote:lol @ thinking getting into work at 8AM is "early"
- Old Gregg
- Posts: 5409
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:26 pm
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
In NYC, a lot of attorneys get in at around 10am and I know plenty who get in at 11-1130. 8am is extremely early (and a great way to get in and get work done without being disturbed by others, I might add).Jimbo_Jones wrote:lol @ thinking getting into work at 8AM is "early"
-
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:36 am
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
I just think it's funny that many attorneys will complain about not having a life outside of work because they're in the office until 8-9PM every night. Well, if you got into the office at 7AM, you could get out at 5-6PM and still have plenty of time for family/life after work.
Obviously this is all dependent upon the normal business hours your employer and clients require you to keep.
Obviously this is all dependent upon the normal business hours your employer and clients require you to keep.
- A. Nony Mouse
- Posts: 29293
- Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am
Re: Can anyone give me a breakdown of Biglaw hours?
lol. yes, biglaw hours interfere with family life because the attorneys get into work too late.Jimbo_Jones wrote:I just think it's funny that many attorneys will complain about not having a life outside of work because they're in the office until 8-9PM every night. Well, if you got into the office at 7AM, you could get out at 5-6PM and still have plenty of time for family/life after work.
Obviously this is all dependent upon the normal business hours your employer and clients require you to keep.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login