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I'm an SA at a V10 firm in NY (with a very high offer rate, historically) and my final review is coming up. Assuming I get an offer, how does it work? Do most people accept offers on the spot? Are you expected to accept then? What happens if you want to play the field a little bit at 3LOLCI?

Anonymous User wrote:I'm an SA at a V10 firm in NY (with a very high offer rate, historically) and my final review is coming up. Assuming I get an offer, how does it work? Do most people accept offers on the spot? Are you expected to accept then? What happens if you want to play the field a little bit at 3LOLCI?

Depends on the firm. I doubt any firm is going to make a take-it-or-leave-it offer to you that you MUST accept on the spot. That would be low-class, and they won't do that, since it is a big decision. Whether they will give you enough time to go through 3L OCI, I'm not sure. My firm made offers to everyone all at once at our farewell dinner, and recruiting essentially passed around a big pad of paper if you wanted to accept the offer then and there. The majority of summers did so, with a few instead choosing to think it over for a bit.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm an SA at a V10 firm in NY (with a very high offer rate, historically) and my final review is coming up. Assuming I get an offer, how does it work? Do most people accept offers on the spot? Are you expected to accept then? What happens if you want to play the field a little bit at 3LOLCI?

Depends on the firm. I doubt any firm is going to make a take-it-or-leave-it offer to you that you MUST accept on the spot. That would be low-class, and they won't do that, since it is a big decision. Whether they will give you enough time to go through 3L OCI, I'm not sure. My firm made offers to everyone all at once at our farewell dinner, and recruiting essentially passed around a big pad of paper if you wanted to accept the offer then and there. The majority of summers did so, with a few instead choosing to think it over for a bit.

I assume a V10 would follow the NALP 28-day procedure. But does it look bad if you don't accept right away? Are there any consequences if you end up accepting three weeks later after striking out elsewhere?

My v20 firm gave the standard 28 days to accept and gave offers during the final reviews. Some people accepted on the spot, others (myself included) did not accept until a week or more later and haven't noticed any animosity or different treatment.

I'm interested in this. I won't accept my offer right away and will be looking to go to another firm. I'm going to try and milk that 28 days as much as I can.

I would generally advise to not accept on the spot, unless you're absolutely certain you're not going to do any 3L interviewing. Even if you're not going to do 3L interviewing, you might hand away cards that can be played later. For example, a friend got an offer from a very prestigious firm. He elected not to accept on the spot. He really wanted to feel certain that he was going to be slotted into the group he desired (one that had more people trying to slot in than there were spots available). After a couple weeks, he made some calls, said that he loved his time at the firm, but really wanted some kind of assurance that he could slot into a specific group. They said they would do their best, he accepted, and he got into the group ahead of a substantial number of others.

And, honestly, it's pretty low class for a firm to apply any kind of "pressure tactic" (e.g. passing around a piece of paper at the farewill dinner) to get people to accept on the spot.

I can't remember exactly what the deadline was, but my firm gave you longer than 28 days. It was sometime in October or November.

Anonymous User wrote:I can't remember exactly what the deadline was, but my firm gave you longer than 28 days.

Same (except I'm not even sure there was a formal deadline). I got a call from my V5 very early this year asking my decision on last summer's offer.

Speaking as a lowly 1L SA, I think people are hugely overestimating how much the partners who you'll be working for keep up with the recruiting end of things. The partner I mostly worked with has gone to zero recruiting events and appears to have zero contact with the recruiting staff beyond being told that I was going to be working with him for a rotation. That looks to be pretty normal for the partners who are in the middle ground between being really young and thus able to go to parties or golf or whatever post-work because their kids are either not born yet or are young toddlers who are always asleep before they get home, and the ones who are old enough that they can take an evening off without worrying about family stuff-- which is to say most of the partners.

I am pretty confident that between no and a very few partners will have any idea, ever, at any point in their lives, that you took more than a day to accept your offer. They're busy doing actually important things that have nothing to do with bringing a new round of cogs into the machine.

I would not assume that 28 days is enough to do 3L OCI and get an offer from another firm. If you did 3L OCI the week afterward, you probably would not be able to do a callback for 1 or 2 more weeks, and then there would probably be one or two weeks before the firm made a decision. Thus, it is only in the best of scenarios that you can actually use an enforced window of precisely 28 days to your benefit. If you want to do 3L OCI, you should think about a reasonable way to let your firm know, so you can adjust the deadline as necessary.

Anonymous User wrote:Speaking as a lowly 1L SA, I think people are hugely overestimating how much the partners who you'll be working for keep up with the recruiting end of things. The partner I mostly worked with has gone to zero recruiting events and appears to have zero contact with the recruiting staff beyond being told that I was going to be working with him for a rotation. That looks to be pretty normal for the partners who are in the middle ground between being really young and thus able to go to parties or golf or whatever post-work because their kids are either not born yet or are young toddlers who are always asleep before they get home, and the ones who are old enough that they can take an evening off without worrying about family stuff-- which is to say most of the partners.

I am pretty confident that between no and a very few partners will have any idea, ever, at any point in their lives, that you took more than a day to accept your offer. They're busy doing actually important things that have nothing to do with bringing a new round of cogs into the machine.

You may be a lowly 1L, but this is probably the credited response. Even if they did know, I can't imagine anybody giving a shit.

I'm surprised that people haven't started worrying about accepting too soon coming across as desperate, and eventually arriving at a perfect amount of time before accepting (answer: 11.3 days).

Anonymous User wrote:Speaking as a lowly 1L SA, I think people are hugely overestimating how much the partners who you'll be working for keep up with the recruiting end of things. The partner I mostly worked with has gone to zero recruiting events and appears to have zero contact with the recruiting staff beyond being told that I was going to be working with him for a rotation. That looks to be pretty normal for the partners who are in the middle ground between being really young and thus able to go to parties or golf or whatever post-work because their kids are either not born yet or are young toddlers who are always asleep before they get home, and the ones who are old enough that they can take an evening off without worrying about family stuff-- which is to say most of the partners.

I am pretty confident that between no and a very few partners will have any idea, ever, at any point in their lives, that you took more than a day to accept your offer. They're busy doing actually important things that have nothing to do with bringing a new round of cogs into the machine.

That is at your firm and it is different from 1L SA to 2L SA. I know at my firm the practice group I'm in is very small and they will know if I don't accept the offer immedately. Now will it have a lasting affect? I'm pretty sure it won't, but some people do take things like that as a slight.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Speaking as a lowly 1L SA, I think people are hugely overestimating how much the partners who you'll be working for keep up with the recruiting end of things. The partner I mostly worked with has gone to zero recruiting events and appears to have zero contact with the recruiting staff beyond being told that I was going to be working with him for a rotation. That looks to be pretty normal for the partners who are in the middle ground between being really young and thus able to go to parties or golf or whatever post-work because their kids are either not born yet or are young toddlers who are always asleep before they get home, and the ones who are old enough that they can take an evening off without worrying about family stuff-- which is to say most of the partners.

I am pretty confident that between no and a very few partners will have any idea, ever, at any point in their lives, that you took more than a day to accept your offer. They're busy doing actually important things that have nothing to do with bringing a new round of cogs into the machine.

You may be a lowly 1L, but this is probably the credited response. Even if they did know, I can't imagine anybody giving a shit.

I'm surprised that people haven't started worrying about accepting too soon coming across as desperate, and eventually arriving at a perfect amount of time before accepting (answer: 11.3 days).

This is not necessarily the CR. It will depend on the firm and the size of the class. I summered at a V100 and I did not accept on the spot. I did 3L OCI and I had several partners and several associates call and ask if there was anything they could do to help me make my decision, i.e. accept their offer. Some firms take pride in their recruiting efforts, and if they give you an offer, they want you to accept.

Others probably take less pride or simply have class sizes that are too large to care/effectively follow up with the summers.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Speaking as a lowly 1L SA, I think people are hugely overestimating how much the partners who you'll be working for keep up with the recruiting end of things. The partner I mostly worked with has gone to zero recruiting events and appears to have zero contact with the recruiting staff beyond being told that I was going to be working with him for a rotation. That looks to be pretty normal for the partners who are in the middle ground between being really young and thus able to go to parties or golf or whatever post-work because their kids are either not born yet or are young toddlers who are always asleep before they get home, and the ones who are old enough that they can take an evening off without worrying about family stuff-- which is to say most of the partners.

I am pretty confident that between no and a very few partners will have any idea, ever, at any point in their lives, that you took more than a day to accept your offer. They're busy doing actually important things that have nothing to do with bringing a new round of cogs into the machine.

You may be a lowly 1L, but this is probably the credited response. Even if they did know, I can't imagine anybody giving a shit.

I'm surprised that people haven't started worrying about accepting too soon coming across as desperate, and eventually arriving at a perfect amount of time before accepting (answer: 11.3 days).

This is not necessarily the CR. It will depend on the firm and the size of the class. I summered at a V100 and I did not accept on the spot. I did 3L OCI and I had several partners and several associates call and ask if there was anything they could do to help me make my decision, i.e. accept their offer. Some firms take pride in their recruiting efforts, and if they give you an offer, they want you to accept.

Others probably take less pride or simply have class sizes that are too large to care/effectively follow up with the summers.

Do you think it negatively affected you to do 3L OCI?

It seems like the firm had its shit together in terms of recruiting efforts: recruiting thinks or knows that you're doing 3L OCI or taking a while to accept, they email the partners and associates asking that they shoot you a friendly email, and they do so.

I think he's saying he doesn't know if it affected him. I don't think it would but that is an assumption. People hold grudges for the silliest reasons.

Anonymous User wrote:I would not assume that 28 days is enough to do 3L OCI and get an offer from another firm. If you did 3L OCI the week afterward, you probably would not be able to do a callback for 1 or 2 more weeks, and then there would probably be one or two weeks before the firm made a decision. Thus, it is only in the best of scenarios that you can actually use an enforced window of precisely 28 days to your benefit. If you want to do 3L OCI, you should think about a reasonable way to let your firm know, so you can adjust the deadline as necessary.

Unless things have changed, the deadline is typically November 1 to accept a full time offer under the NALP guidelines. 28 days is the OCI-offer window.

FlightoftheEarls wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I would not assume that 28 days is enough to do 3L OCI and get an offer from another firm. If you did 3L OCI the week afterward, you probably would not be able to do a callback for 1 or 2 more weeks, and then there would probably be one or two weeks before the firm made a decision. Thus, it is only in the best of scenarios that you can actually use an enforced window of precisely 28 days to your benefit. If you want to do 3L OCI, you should think about a reasonable way to let your firm know, so you can adjust the deadline as necessary.

Unless things have changed, the deadline is typically November 1 to accept a full time offer under the NALP guidelines. 28 days is the OCI-offer window.

This is basically right (*generally* 11/1 for an offer from a firm at which the person previously summered, 28 days for other offers). Same principle applies though. I had 1 3L OCI offer by that deadline, but was still waiting back to hear from others.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Speaking as a lowly 1L SA, I think people are hugely overestimating how much the partners who you'll be working for keep up with the recruiting end of things. The partner I mostly worked with has gone to zero recruiting events and appears to have zero contact with the recruiting staff beyond being told that I was going to be working with him for a rotation. That looks to be pretty normal for the partners who are in the middle ground between being really young and thus able to go to parties or golf or whatever post-work because their kids are either not born yet or are young toddlers who are always asleep before they get home, and the ones who are old enough that they can take an evening off without worrying about family stuff-- which is to say most of the partners.

I am pretty confident that between no and a very few partners will have any idea, ever, at any point in their lives, that you took more than a day to accept your offer. They're busy doing actually important things that have nothing to do with bringing a new round of cogs into the machine.

You may be a lowly 1L, but this is probably the credited response. Even if they did know, I can't imagine anybody giving a shit.

I'm surprised that people haven't started worrying about accepting too soon coming across as desperate, and eventually arriving at a perfect amount of time before accepting (answer: 11.3 days).

This is not necessarily the CR. It will depend on the firm and the size of the class. I summered at a V100 and I did not accept on the spot. I did 3L OCI and I had several partners and several associates call and ask if there was anything they could do to help me make my decision, i.e. accept their offer. Some firms take pride in their recruiting efforts, and if they give you an offer, they want you to accept.

Others probably take less pride or simply have class sizes that are too large to care/effectively follow up with the summers.

Do you think it negatively affected you to do 3L OCI?

It seems like the firm had its shit together in terms of recruiting efforts: recruiting thinks or knows that you're doing 3L OCI or taking a while to accept, they email the partners and associates asking that they shoot you a friendly email, and they do so.

It did not affect me because I did not accept their offer. I do not think it would have, though. I was honest about my reasons for doing 3L OCI, and I kept them in the loop as to what I was doing. They were very gracious when we parted ways, to the point where I was left with the impression that they would not hold it against me if I sought work there in the future.

I wouldn't accept on the spot. You have until November 1st, why rush? It reeks of inexperience and maybe a lack of strategic thinking. What kind of person makes a major life decision without at least taking a little time to think about it first?

unc0mm0n1 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Speaking as a lowly 1L SA, I think people are hugely overestimating how much the partners who you'll be working for keep up with the recruiting end of things. The partner I mostly worked with has gone to zero recruiting events and appears to have zero contact with the recruiting staff beyond being told that I was going to be working with him for a rotation. That looks to be pretty normal for the partners who are in the middle ground between being really young and thus able to go to parties or golf or whatever post-work because their kids are either not born yet or are young toddlers who are always asleep before they get home, and the ones who are old enough that they can take an evening off without worrying about family stuff-- which is to say most of the partners.

I am pretty confident that between no and a very few partners will have any idea, ever, at any point in their lives, that you took more than a day to accept your offer. They're busy doing actually important things that have nothing to do with bringing a new round of cogs into the machine.

That is at your firm and it is different from 1L SA to 2L SA. I know at my firm the practice group I'm in is very small and they will know if I don't accept the offer immedately. Now will it have a lasting affect? I'm pretty sure it won't, but some people do take things like that as a slight.

Oh definitely I can see it being different if you're in a 5 person group or something. I'm just saying for the folks who are in the bread-and-butter practices doing like general lit or general corporate -- most SA's at most firms -- it probably won't matter, because the partners won't even notice in the first place that you didn't accept right away, and wouldn't remember even if they learned, because they're busy-ass people with real live concerns on their plates.

Anonymous User wrote:

unc0mm0n1 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Speaking as a lowly 1L SA, I think people are hugely overestimating how much the partners who you'll be working for keep up with the recruiting end of things. The partner I mostly worked with has gone to zero recruiting events and appears to have zero contact with the recruiting staff beyond being told that I was going to be working with him for a rotation. That looks to be pretty normal for the partners who are in the middle ground between being really young and thus able to go to parties or golf or whatever post-work because their kids are either not born yet or are young toddlers who are always asleep before they get home, and the ones who are old enough that they can take an evening off without worrying about family stuff-- which is to say most of the partners.

I am pretty confident that between no and a very few partners will have any idea, ever, at any point in their lives, that you took more than a day to accept your offer. They're busy doing actually important things that have nothing to do with bringing a new round of cogs into the machine.

That is at your firm and it is different from 1L SA to 2L SA. I know at my firm the practice group I'm in is very small and they will know if I don't accept the offer immedately. Now will it have a lasting affect? I'm pretty sure it won't, but some people do take things like that as a slight.

Oh definitely I can see it being different if you're in a 5 person group or something. I'm just saying for the folks who are in the bread-and-butter practices doing like general lit or general corporate -- most SA's at most firms -- it probably won't matter, because the partners won't even notice in the first place that you didn't accept right away, and wouldn't remember even if they learned, because they're busy-ass people with real live concerns on their plates.

This post is full of inaccurate assumptions. Just bc uncommon1's practice group was small does not mean it does not apply to bigger groups. Also, at many large firms, with many summer associates, "most" are not doing "bread and butter" practices (whatever that means). You have SAs spread across the various groups. At my v10, I don't know if there is a majority of SAs in any 1 practice group, but I doubt it. And, at least as some large firms, partners do take an interest in the SAs to the extent that they would indeed notice if an SA did not accept.

Of course, the bigger the office and the more SAs, the less likely the partner is to notice an individual summers' failure to accept. Furthermore, I'm sure there are many partners who really don't care at all about summers. But there are also a lot who do, including practice group leaders and rainmakers (I have seen it in person).

I'm not trying to make SA's neurotic; but there should not be the attendant assumption that because partners may not always give a lot of thought to the substantive work that you do (some will some won't), that they won't notice if you don't accept or that they don't care one way or another if you accept. Partners need to capacity plan, and they do that in part by assuming that a high percentage of their summers will accept permanent offers.

LOTS of misinformation going on in this thread. The deadline (NALP recommended - out the firms if they don't follow it) is November 1st. NALP technically also "recommends" that firms extend a full-time offer deadline to April 1st if the student is pursuing public interest or government options, but I have only heard of that actually happening once (note: I haven't heard of firms NOT doing that, I've just only affirmatively heard confirmation from a friend that her firm extended her offer to April 1st b/c she was doing PI interviews. She also DGAF about going back to the firm so YMMV if you ask for an April 1st extension - I can't imagine a firm would be too happy about it, but that is the black letter of the NALP recommendations).

The 28 day thing is for SA offers, not full-time offers. Unless something has changed in the past year.

Borg wrote:I wouldn't accept on the spot. You have until November 1st, why rush? It reeks of inexperience and maybe a lack of strategic thinking. What kind of person makes a major life decision without at least taking a little time to think about it first?

What? Presumably you have assumed for almost a year (by the time you get the offer) that you are going to get an offer to work full-time with this firm. You've had a ton of time to think about it and weigh your options. It does not "reek of inexperience" to accept on the spot.

Anonymous User wrote:
It seems like the firm had its shit together in terms of recruiting efforts: recruiting thinks or knows that you're doing 3L OCI or taking a while to accept, they email the partners and associates asking that they shoot you a friendly email, and they do so.

I'm in TX, not NY, but I had multiple calls and emails from partners/associates encouraging me to accept an offer for a 1L SA. I would have thought this would be the norm for a full-time offer.

People are getting confused with OCI and post-summer stuff. Not even just the 28-day and November 1 stuff.

It might appear inexperienced to accept your first OCI offer and cancel 10 other callbacks, unless for some reason you just absolutely knew you wanted to be there (might happen with firms like W&C, Susman, Keker, and the like, I guess). It would not appear that way after you've spent 10 weeks at the firm, met everyone (or a lot of people) in your desired practice area, basically got welcomed into the "family" already.

But damn I hate you all for even having to think about this issue.

When I got my offer I was all like A THOUSAND TIMES YES, and I'm pretty sure other summers were too. I dunno if they would have been offended or anything, but it's definitely not weird to accept on the spot.