Top Law Schools

.

A few of these bids seem a bit off, at least in terms of *where* they are on your bidlist. At my CCN, bidding Cleary NYC at #23 is absolutely pointless - they fill up WAY before that. So I'd guess I would re-evaulate your list in terms of perceived/actual *popularity*. Anecdotally, a friend at Cornell said that Weil NYC capped at people who bid it #1 (and not even all of those got it). I heard the same thing about Proskauer NYC at another CCN (had to bid it #1 to get an interview and not everyone who did got it). Granted, this *popularity* index (if you can call it that) should be balanced against the number of interview slots. In the Cornell case, Weil only had 20 interview slots available: that should have been a red flag to anyone bidding Weil that they were going to be way over-subscribed. Hence, if Cleary has something like 200 slots at M, maybe you can get away with bidding them #23. I think this idea of popularity/slots is something you're going to have to do a lot of deep background on - get other bidlists from 2Ls and 3Ls and see what worked for them. Try and pinpoint where on your list these firms will be filling up.

If you were at my CCN, I would say move Simpson WAY down - at my CCN, I got an interview with Simpson in the 30s or so. Same with Davis Polk. Cadwalader at #19 at my CCN? Dream on!

Additionally, I see that you are splitting your bids three ways (DC/LA/NY). I think this is foolish, but if you really can't narrow it down to just two cities (or maybe only bid NYC/one or two DC - if you're in LA for the summer, NETWORK and mass-mail), at least be *smart* about the way you are splitting. Why is Milbank LA above Milbank NYC? LA takes like 5 summers. NYC takes like 20-25 (maybe more?).

So re-evaulate based on:

(1) popularity/number of slots for interviews
(2) size of the summer classes
(3) focus on spreading yourself over 2 cities and not 3 - preferably 1 city IMO.

koalatriste wrote:A few of these bids seem a bit off, at least in terms of *where* they are on your bidlist. At my CCN, bidding Cleary NYC at #23 is absolutely pointless - they fill up WAY before that. So I'd guess I would re-evaulate your list in terms of perceived/actual *popularity*. Anecdotally, a friend at Cornell said that Weil NYC capped at people who bid it #1 (and not even all of those got it). I heard the same thing about Proskauer NYC at another CCN (had to bid it #1 to get an interview and not everyone who did got it). Granted, this *popularity* index (if you can call it that) should be balanced against the number of interview slots. In the Cornell case, Weil only had 20 interview slots available: that should have been a red flag to anyone bidding Weil that they were going to be way over-subscribed. Hence, if Cleary has something like 200 slots at M, maybe you can get away with bidding them #23. I think this idea of popularity/slots is something you're going to have to do a lot of deep background on - get other bidlists from 2Ls and 3Ls and see what worked for them. Try and pinpoint where on your list these firms will be filling up.

If you were at my CCN, I would say move Simpson WAY down - at my CCN, I got an interview with Simpson in the 30s or so. Same with Davis Polk. Cadwalader at #19 at my CCN? Dream on!

Additionally, I see that you are splitting your bids three ways (DC/LA/NY). I think this is foolish, but if you really can't narrow it down to just two cities (or maybe only bid NYC/one or two DC - if you're in LA for the summer, NETWORK and mass-mail), at least be *smart* about the way you are splitting. Why is Milbank LA above Milbank NYC? LA takes like 5 summers. NYC takes like 20-25 (maybe more?).

So re-evaulate based on:

(1) popularity/number of slots for interviews
(2) size of the summer classes
(3) focus on spreading yourself over 2 cities and not 3 - preferably 1 city IMO.

So it appears that the numbers are a little different at Michigan. Let me address one of your concerns so you can help me some more. I really appreciate the input.

Last year at Michigan, almost everyone that wanted Cleary got it. 41/55 and the average GPA taken was in the top 10%. I don't imagine that changing dramatically this year.

Michigan is a huge Weil feeder. Their NY office has the largest number of interviews for one office at OCI (I think.)

Simpson had 59 interview slots last year and over 100 people bid on them, which is why they are as high as they are.

Milbank LA is above Milbank NYC because Milbank NYC has a huge number of interviews so I though I could put them a bit lower than their LA office.

With that in mind, what do you think? Obviously I understand the advice about targetting only 1-2 markets. There are only 2 DC firms on the bid list and NYC makes up more than half of the list. I spoke to OCP and they didn't think this was the worst strategy, since both DC firms are fairly GPA heavy.

Don't know much about LA or NYC, but my school's career services (at YHS) suggests that a lot of DC firms strongly prefer solid pre-LS WE and get really wary of people who aren't focusing their bidding on DC, even if you have good grades. From what I've heard, WilmerHale seems to care about WE and a DC focus but I'm not sure about Paul Weiss.

Anonymous User wrote:

koalatriste wrote:A few of these bids seem a bit off, at least in terms of *where* they are on your bidlist. At my CCN, bidding Cleary NYC at #23 is absolutely pointless - they fill up WAY before that. So I'd guess I would re-evaulate your list in terms of perceived/actual *popularity*. Anecdotally, a friend at Cornell said that Weil NYC capped at people who bid it #1 (and not even all of those got it). I heard the same thing about Proskauer NYC at another CCN (had to bid it #1 to get an interview and not everyone who did got it). Granted, this *popularity* index (if you can call it that) should be balanced against the number of interview slots. In the Cornell case, Weil only had 20 interview slots available: that should have been a red flag to anyone bidding Weil that they were going to be way over-subscribed. Hence, if Cleary has something like 200 slots at M, maybe you can get away with bidding them #23. I think this idea of popularity/slots is something you're going to have to do a lot of deep background on - get other bidlists from 2Ls and 3Ls and see what worked for them. Try and pinpoint where on your list these firms will be filling up.

If you were at my CCN, I would say move Simpson WAY down - at my CCN, I got an interview with Simpson in the 30s or so. Same with Davis Polk. Cadwalader at #19 at my CCN? Dream on!

Additionally, I see that you are splitting your bids three ways (DC/LA/NY). I think this is foolish, but if you really can't narrow it down to just two cities (or maybe only bid NYC/one or two DC - if you're in LA for the summer, NETWORK and mass-mail), at least be *smart* about the way you are splitting. Why is Milbank LA above Milbank NYC? LA takes like 5 summers. NYC takes like 20-25 (maybe more?).

So re-evaulate based on:

(1) popularity/number of slots for interviews
(2) size of the summer classes
(3) focus on spreading yourself over 2 cities and not 3 - preferably 1 city IMO.

So it appears that the numbers are a little different at Michigan. Let me address one of your concerns so you can help me some more. I really appreciate the input.

Last year at Michigan, almost everyone that wanted Cleary got it. 41/55 and the average GPA taken was in the top 10%. I don't imagine that changing dramatically this year.

Michigan is a huge Weil feeder. Their NY office has the largest number of interviews for one office at OCI (I think.)

Simpson had 59 interview slots last year and over 100 people bid on them, which is why they are as high as they are.

Milbank LA is above Milbank NYC because Milbank NYC has a huge number of interviews so I though I could put them a bit lower than their LA office.

With that in mind, what do you think? Obviously I understand the advice about targetting only 1-2 markets. There are only 2 DC firms on the bid list and NYC makes up more than half of the list. I spoke to OCP and they didn't think this was the worst strategy, since both DC firms are fairly GPA heavy.

How do you find out how many interview slots each firm has?

On the Career website where all of the OCI related docs are there's one called "2012 EIW bidding data." It doesn't have the number of slots for this year but it shows what people bid on last year.

potted plant wrote:On the Career website where all of the OCI related docs are there's one called "2012 EIW bidding data." It doesn't have the number of slots for this year but it shows what people bid on last year.

Got it. Thank you!

Anyone else have any incite? The help provided by the above poster was excellent.

.

sorry cant help much OP--not doing NYC but LA slots look pretty well placed as far as I can tell. I'm also at M and was wondering if you had any idea where 3.57 places you?

Yeah, I did mind looking at your bidlist.

Anonymous User wrote:Don't know much about LA or NYC, but my school's career services (at YHS) suggests that a lot of DC firms strongly prefer solid pre-LS WE and get really wary of people who aren't focusing their bidding on DC, even if you have good grades. From what I've heard, WilmerHale seems to care about WE and a DC focus but I'm not sure about Paul Weiss.

How do they know? Do they just straight up ask in the interview and if you don't just say "Only DC" they run for the hills?

Anon with the DC advice - they don't exactly run for the hills, but I talked to some DC-area OCI interviewers about it and when they ask where you're interviewing and you don't just say DC, it's apparently a huge mark against you for a lot of firms in the area. This definitely doesn't hold for every firm though.

Anonymous User wrote:sorry cant help much OP--not doing NYC but LA slots look pretty well placed as far as I can tell. I'm also at M and was wondering if you had any idea where 3.57 places you?

I'd guess top 20%

Anonymous User wrote:Anon with the DC advice - they don't exactly run for the hills, but I talked to some DC-area OCI interviewers about it and when they ask where you're interviewing and you don't just say DC, it's apparently a huge mark against you for a lot of firms in the area. This definitely doesn't hold for every firm though.

I removed the DC firms and replaced them with NYC/LA firms. I also reordered some things. Do you have any advice now?

Remember to keep in mind Weil's wave of layoffs this week. Will likely affect OCI hiring at M.

I've also heard that Jones Day almost always needs a high bid, usually top 10 for NYC and top 5 for Chicago.

DaftAndDirect wrote:Remember to keep in mind Weil's wave of layoffs this week. Will likely affect OCI hiring at M.

I've also heard that Jones Day almost always needs a high bid, usually top 10 for NYC and top 5 for Chicago.

Do you know why it would impact OCI hiring? Nothing I've seen indicates a cutting of class sizes for next year in their NYC office.

I think it's just common sense. I'm not suggesting that you radically alter your bidding strategy, but touting Weil's reputation as a huge M recruiter may be a bit off in light of the recent news.

I agree with some of the comments above about bid placement. For instance, Milbank is always a hugely popular firm. You won't get it where you have it. Also, check to see if you need to bid multiple offices. Last year we just preferences them instead of separate interviews.

AreJay711 wrote:I agree with some of the comments above about bid placement. For instance, Milbank is always a hugely popular firm. You won't get it where you have it. Also, check to see if you need to bid multiple offices. Last year we just preferences them instead of separate interviews.

Some offices you have to bid multiple, some you don't. Where would you suggest putting Milbank and what would you drop down?

Anonymous bidlist poster:

I would put Irell at 30 and move 29 and 30 up. I would consider moving Davis Polk, Debevoise a bit up -- these are great firms within your range that you want to make sure you get interviews at. You will get Irell at 30 (usually underbid) and in any case your GPA makes them a stretch for you anyways.

It's generally unwise to bid/interview at multiple offices at the same firm. I would not recommend this unless you have good information that the firm does not mind you interviewing multiple offices. I personally interviewed with and got multiple offers from different Kirkland offices. So I think you bidding multiple Kirkland offices is okay. I am not sure about Paul Weiss or Latham.

Anonymous User wrote:

AreJay711 wrote:I agree with some of the comments above about bid placement. For instance, Milbank is always a hugely popular firm. You won't get it where you have it. Also, check to see if you need to bid multiple offices. Last year we just preferences them instead of separate interviews.

Some offices you have to bid multiple, some you don't. Where would you suggest putting Milbank and what would you drop down?

That depends how much you want to work there. I think you should put it relatively high if you want to get the interview. I know they aren't as grade selective so a lot of people will bid on them. When I get off work, I'll look to see where I bid them. I had similar numbers but was applying to different markets.

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the 3 market split. The employers don't see what markets you've bid on or have interviews with so just tell them one other market if they ask. (Edit: Of course, at the same firm they will know.)