Top Law Schools

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Kirkland NY 75 51
Sidley NY 75 26 >
Allen & Overy NY 38 24 <
Reed Smith NY 19 8 >
Alston & Bird NY 19 8
Freshfields NY 68 19 total >>
Linklaters NY 38 21 <
Goodwin Proctor NY 38 11 >
Winston and Strawn NY 38 7 <
Seward & Kissel NY 38 12 total >
clifford chance NY 75 17 <
Weil NY 75 53 <<
Paul Hastings NY 67 13 <<
Kaye Scholer NY 57 unlisted
Kramer Levin NY 57 18 total >
Morgan Lewis NY 54 11 <
Gibson Dunn NY 95 39 <
Mayer Brown NY 38 17 >
Dechert NY 150 17 <<<
White and Case NY 75 29 <
Orrick NY 57 10 <
hogan lovells NY 57 14 <
K&L Gates NY 75 7
Katten NY 38 10 >
Shearman and Sterling NY 94 40 >>
Pilsbury NY 38 unlisted
Schulte Roth and Zabel NY 113 34 total >
Stroock Stroock NY 113 23 >
Cadwalader NY 160 25 <
Cahill Gordon NY 94 51 total >
Chadbourne and Park NY 94 16 total <
Baker & McKenzie NY 19 5 <
Bracewell Guiliani NY 19 7 >
Milbank Tweed NY 113 69 >>>
Fried Frank NY 113 20 <
Hughes Hubbard NY 113 unlisted
Willkie Farr NY 113 unlisted
Akin Gump NY 75 12 <
Brown Rudnick NY 38* 23 total >
Bryan Cave NY 59* 4
Bingham McCutcheon NY 38 39 total < (prob 10)
Baker & Hostetler NY 19 3 <
MoFo NY 57 7 <
DLA Piper NY 38 30 total <<
Simpson NY 187 63 <<
Cleary NY 187 98 <<
Perkins Coie Chicago 21* 5 >
Latham Chicago 10 13 >
Jones Day Chicago 21* 11 >
Schiff Hardin Chicago 21* 13 >
Bryan Cave Chi NO DOUBLES 21*
Drinker Biddle Chicago 21*
Foley & Lardner Chicago NO DOUBLE BIDDING 42* 6
Mayer Brown Chicago NO DOUBLE BIDDING 21 27 >
Ropes and Gray Chicago NO DOUBLE BIDDING 114* 7 >
Sidley Chi (grades) Chicago 21 42 >








Proskauer Rose NY 57 17 <<
King and Spaulding NY 38 5
Latham NY 134 36 >>
Cooley NY 33 4 <
Nixon Peabody NY 19 3
Ropes and Gray NY 114* 28 <<<
Vinson & Elkin NY 14 2 <<
Arent Fox NY 19 unlisted
Herbert Smith (UK) NY 38 unlisted
Arnold & Porter NY 57 8 >
Jenner & Block NY 21 7 >
Kelley Drye NY 57 4 <
McDermott NY 75 28 total (all offices) <
O'Melveny & Myers NY 75 16 >
Patterson Belknap NY 57 9 <
Greenberg Traurig 38 10 >

Oh, please don't quote the personal info above the list b/c it's probably easy to figure out who I am based on the gpa trend

Based on what OCS told a friend, I think you're pretty much right at median. But should still be conservative

Looks good overall. Talk to OCS about your bid order.

Anonymous User wrote:Based on what OCS told a friend, I think you're pretty much right at median. But should still be conservative

wow, I heard that it was probably gonna be around a 3.28-9. that's great news if accurate!


-OP-

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Based on what OCS told a friend, I think you're pretty much right at median. But should still be conservative

wow, I heard that it was probably gonna be around a 3.28-9. that's great news if accurate!


-OP-

Thing is I've heard all sorts of things, and it probably matters more what employers think the avg is. But there really should really be a big dif between 3.3 and 3.2, because either employers want good grades or they don't care as much.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Based on what OCS told a friend, I think you're pretty much right at median. But should still be conservative

wow, I heard that it was probably gonna be around a 3.28-9. that's great news if accurate!


-OP-

Thing is I've heard all sorts of things, and it probably matters more what employers think the avg is. But there really should really be a big dif between 3.3 and 3.2, because either employers want good grades or they don't care as much.

cool. I'm waiting for OCS review. I revised a little before sending it to them, basically removed a few firms hiring ~5 SA's and moving up some of the firms with bigger classes. I'll post again when I hear from them.

Thanks for your help

updated:
(rank) (name) (city) (interview slots)
1 Sidley NY 75
2 Kirkland NY 75
3 Proskauer Rose NY 57
4 Skadden Arps NY 75
5 Shearman and Sterling NY 94
6 Weil NY 75
7 Linklaters NY 38
8 Schulte Roth and Zabel NY 113
9 clifford chance NY 75
10 Latham NY 134
11 Gibson Dunn NY 95
12 Cadwalader NY 160
13 Goodwin Proctor NY 38
14 Milbank Tweed NY 113
15 Willkie Farr NY 113
16 Fried Frank NY 113
17 White and Case NY 75
18 Akin Gump NY 75
19 hogan lovells NY 57
20 Cahill Gordon NY 94
21 Stroock Stroock NY 113
22 Dechert NY 150
23 Hughes Hubbard NY 113
24 Allen & Overy NY 38
25 Paul Hastings NY 67
26 McDermott NY 75
27 Kramer Levin NY 57
28 Morgan Lewis NY 54
29 Orrick NY 57
30 Freshfields NY 68
31 Bingham McCutcheon NY 38
32 K&L Gates NY 75
33 DLA Piper NY 38
34 Seward & Kissel NY 38
35 Katten NY 38
36 Greenberg Traurig NY 38
37 Cleary NY 187
38 Simpson NY 187
39 Davis Polk NY 206
40 Chadbourne and Park NY 94
41 Mayer Brown Chicago 21
42 Sidley Chicago 21


TYIA

I'm medianish at Penn and my bidlist looks similar to yours. Not the most helpful advice, but hopefully reassuring.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm medianish at Penn and my bidlist looks similar to yours. Not the most helpful advice, but hopefully reassuring.

glad to hear. How many bids do you guys get? I'm assuming employers generally have similar numbers of interviewers there

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm medianish at Penn and my bidlist looks similar to yours. Not the most helpful advice, but hopefully reassuring.

glad to hear. How many bids do you guys get? I'm assuming employers generally have similar numbers of interviewers there

60 bids, but I'm not planning on getting anything I have ranked after ~25 (though I certainly won't complain if I do, and I still paid attention to that part of my bidlist). Looks like proportionally, most firms have a pretty similar number of slots. Class size here is 244 IIRC. We have 40 slots for Sidley, 60 for Proskauer, 40 for Skadden, and 60 for Shearman, just to give you an idea.

Good luck with OCI, btw!

-OP here-

Our career services is a little cagey on what order to bid firms in, for some reason, so any help on that front would be awesome.

Anonymous User wrote:-OP here-

Our career services is a little cagey on what order to bid firms in, for some reason, so any help on that front would be awesome.

Prob bc if they tell us all the same thing, then the advice ceases to be useful.

Anonymous User wrote:updated:
(rank) (name) (city) (interview slots)
1 Sidley NY 75
2 Kirkland NY 75
3 Proskauer Rose NY 57
4 Skadden Arps NY 75
5 Shearman and Sterling NY 94
6 Weil NY 75
7 Linklaters NY 38
8 Schulte Roth and Zabel NY 113
9 Clifford Chance NY 75
10 Latham NY 134
11 Gibson Dunn NY 95
12 Cadwalader NY 160
13 Goodwin Proctor NY 38
14 Milbank Tweed NY 113
15 Willkie Farr NY 113
16 Fried Frank NY 113
17 White and Case NY 75
18 Akin Gump NY 75
19 Hogan Lovells NY 57
20 Cahill Gordon NY 94
21 Stroock Stroock NY 113
22 Dechert NY 150
23 Hughes Hubbard NY 113
24 Allen & Overy NY 38
25 Paul Hastings NY 67
26 McDermott NY 75
27 Kramer Levin NY 57
28 Morgan Lewis NY 54
29 Orrick NY 57
30 Freshfields NY 68
31 Bingham McCutcheon NY 38
32 K&L Gates NY 75
33 DLA Piper NY 38
34 Seward & Kissel NY 38
35 Katten NY 38
36 Greenberg Traurig NY 38
37 Cleary NY 187
38 Simpson NY 187
39 Davis Polk NY 206
40 Chadbourne and Park NY 94
41 Mayer Brown Chicago 21
42 Sidley Chicago 21


TYIA

A few quick thoughts, in general order of appearance:

Assuming you're not a URM, I suspect you may be wasting your time with Kirkland, Skadden, Latham, Gibson, Cleary, Simpson, Davis Polk, Mayer Brown Chicago and Sidley Chicago, all of which I believe are pretty grade conscious. Not as positive re: Kirkland and Skadden of them.

I'd try to find out whether Sidley lets you interview w/2 offices, that does always seem odd to me. Might go Mayer Brown NY if you don't have Chicago ties

I'd probably throw Cooley on there too, maybe Akin and V&E NY?

good luck

itbdvorm wrote:
A few quick thoughts, in general order of appearance:

Assuming you're not a URM, I suspect you may be wasting your time with Kirkland, Skadden, Latham, Gibson, Cleary, Simpson, Davis Polk, Mayer Brown Chicago and Sidley Chicago, all of which I believe are pretty grade conscious. Not as positive re: Kirkland and Skadden of them.

I'd try to find out whether Sidley lets you interview w/2 offices, that does always seem odd to me. Might go Mayer Brown NY if you don't have Chicago ties

I'd probably throw Cooley on there too, maybe Akin and V&E NY?

good luck

Thanks for your help!

I'd heard that Kirkland, Skadden, Latham, and Gibson are good reaches for medianish people? That surprises me that you think Latham, particularly, is so selective. I have Cleary/Simpson/Davis at the bottom of my list because 1) they have all taken people at or below median (non-URMs without any special wow factor), and 2) It's not likely that you can get interviews from places with small interview pools at that low of a bid - but I may take one or two of them off. Would Jones Day or Ropes be a better "reach" given selectivity and large-ness of class size?

Thanks for the heads up on Mayer and Sidley Chicago. Sidley does allow you to bid multiple offices but we didn't get much info w/r/t selectivity from Chicago offices. I'll probably take at least Sidley, if not both off the list.

I have Akin on there and heard V&E was about as selective as Kirkland, Latham, Gibson etc but with a much smaller summer class.

Thoughts? Thanks again.

As somebody who was in your shoes recently, I will say that your second list is better than your first but still not conservative enough. You are below median. 1/4+ of the class will not get anything from OCI. You are right above that point statistically. Make sure you get the non-grade conscious firms into your top 10, and spend a little less time on reaches. While Skadden or Weil may be good reaches for "Median" people, there is a difference between a 3.3 gunning for a 3.4 firm and a 3.2 gunning. Especially if you are non-URM and probably more-so if you are male. Firms like Chadbourne or Kramer, which are both less grade conscious, should be in your top 20, if not top 15/10, if you are serious about interviewing there, because everyone believes they can just fallback on them (Newsflash, 200+ students are below median and everyone will put the large NY classes with no gpa requirements on their lists...). Voluntarily giving up that (small) chance to work at Skadden is tough man, but I'll just say that the firms I eventually got offers from were not in my top 15 until I was berated enough to get rid of the Skaddens or the Lathams. Don't be the unemployed dude in October kicking himself because he was over-ambitious.


That said, I just want to point out that "expanding or contracting" class sizes provides no info. I know several firms who took more than they intended for example, and plan on cutting down next years class to compensate, or even have explicitly told people from classes that they won't be able to make 100% offers. More importantly, I would focus on the makeup of the classes. Some of these firms with relatively large classes took very few NYU people and some took a ton (though I'm pretty sure this fell more on people accepting summer offers there than on whether NYU summer offers were extended).

update:

1 Sidley
2 Kirkland
3 Proskauer Rose
4 Skadden Arps
5 Shearman and Sterling
6 Weil
7 Linklaters
8 Schulte Roth and Zabel
9 clifford chance
10 Latham
11 Gibson Dunn
12 Paul Hastings
13 Cadwalader
14 Milbank Tweed
15 White and Case
16 Willkie Farr
17 Fried Frank
18 Cahill Gordon
19 Akin Gump
20 Dechert
21 hogan lovells
22 Hughes Hubbard
23 McDermott
24 Stroock Stroock
25 Morgan Lewis
26 Kramer Levin
27 Orrick
28 Goodwin Proctor
29 Seward & Kissel
30 Katten
31 Greenberg Traurig
32 DLA Piper
33 Allen & Overy
34 Freshfields
35 Bingham McCutcheon
36 K&L Gates
37 Simpson
38 Davis Polk
39 Chadbourne and Park
40 Cleary

Removed the Chicago firms, and I may move Cleary off. If this is too strong, should I throw on Mayer NY instead of Latham or Gibson (which is less selective?)

Anonymous User wrote:update:

1 Sidley
2 Kirkland
3 Proskauer Rose
4 Skadden Arps
5 Shearman and Sterling
6 Weil
7 Linklaters
8 Schulte Roth and Zabel
9 Clifford Chance
10 Latham
11 Gibson Dunn
12 Paul Hastings
13 Cadwalader
14 Milbank Tweed
15 White and Case
16 Willkie Farr
17 Fried Frank
18 Cahill Gordon
19 Akin Gump
20 Dechert
21 Hogan Lovells
22 Hughes Hubbard
23 McDermott
24 Stroock Stroock
25 Morgan Lewis
26 Kramer Levin
27 Orrick
28 Goodwin Proctor
29 Seward & Kissel
30 Katten
31 Greenberg Traurig
32 DLA Piper
33 Allen & Overy
34 Freshfields
35 Bingham McCutcheon
36 K&L Gates
37 Simpson
38 Davis Polk
39 Chadbourne and Park
40 Cleary

Removed the Chicago firms, and I may move Cleary off. If this is too strong, should I throw on Mayer NY instead of Latham or Gibson (which is less selective?)

Simpson, Davis Polk, Cleary, Latham, Gibson, Kirkland and Skadden should come off your list yesterday. These firms all have hard grade cutoffs that you are below. They literally will take one look at your transcript and zone out for the rest of the interview. You are seriously running the risk of not getting an offer by wasting bids like this. As another poster said, you don't want to be that idiot in October without a job because you got greedy. You are not a slam dunk at any firm on your list, so you better interview at as many places as possible that you actually have a chance with. A slight increase in prestige is not worth the significant risk you are taking of being unemployed. As a former NYU student, I know plenty of people with your grades who struck out at EIW. And I don't know anyone with your grades working at Simpson, Davis Polk, Cleary, Latham, Gibson, Kirkland or Skadden. Do not make a huge financial mistake.

Anonymous User wrote:
Simpson, Davis Polk, Cleary, Latham, Gibson, Kirkland and Skadden should come off your list yesterday. These firms all have hard grade cutoffs that you are below. They literally will take one look at your transcript and zone out for the rest of the interview. You are seriously running the risk of not getting an offer by wasting bids like this. As another poster said, you don't want to be that idiot in October without a job because you got greedy. You are not a slam dunk at any firm on your list, so you better interview at as many places as possible that you actually have a chance with. A slight increase in prestige is not worth the significant risk you are taking of being unemployed. As a former NYU student, I know plenty of people with your grades who struck out at EIW. And I don't know anyone with your grades working at Simpson, Davis Polk, Cleary, Latham, Gibson, Kirkland or Skadden. Do not make a huge financial mistake.

why do you think career services told me that the only ones that are a bad idea are Simpson, Cleary, and Davis Polk? They seemed to think that the rest were a good idea... Not doubting you, just curious why they would say that while also saying that their recommendations tend to be a bit on the conservative side?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:
Simpson, Davis Polk, Cleary, Latham, Gibson, Kirkland and Skadden should come off your list yesterday. These firms all have hard grade cutoffs that you are below. They literally will take one look at your transcript and zone out for the rest of the interview. You are seriously running the risk of not getting an offer by wasting bids like this. As another poster said, you don't want to be that idiot in October without a job because you got greedy. You are not a slam dunk at any firm on your list, so you better interview at as many places as possible that you actually have a chance with. A slight increase in prestige is not worth the significant risk you are taking of being unemployed. As a former NYU student, I know plenty of people with your grades who struck out at EIW. And I don't know anyone with your grades working at Simpson, Davis Polk, Cleary, Latham, Gibson, Kirkland or Skadden. Do not make a huge financial mistake.

why do you think career services told me that the only ones that are a bad idea are Simpson, Cleary, and Davis Polk? They seemed to think that the rest were a good idea... Not doubting you, just curious why they would say that while also saying that their recommendations tend to be a bit on the conservative side?

Couldn't tell you why, but they aren't the ones saddled with debt. Maybe in the boom times some of those firms would be okay, but if I were you I would be focused on getting $160,000 salary, not miniscule bumps up in prestige that probably don't matter in the long run. Maybe if legal hiring picks up by August you will have a shot, but based on the hard gpa cutoffs at some of these firms last year, you will not even be considered. It doesn't matter if you have the best interview of your life.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:
Simpson, Davis Polk, Cleary, Latham, Gibson, Kirkland and Skadden should come off your list yesterday. These firms all have hard grade cutoffs that you are below. They literally will take one look at your transcript and zone out for the rest of the interview. You are seriously running the risk of not getting an offer by wasting bids like this. As another poster said, you don't want to be that idiot in October without a job because you got greedy. You are not a slam dunk at any firm on your list, so you better interview at as many places as possible that you actually have a chance with. A slight increase in prestige is not worth the significant risk you are taking of being unemployed. As a former NYU student, I know plenty of people with your grades who struck out at EIW. And I don't know anyone with your grades working at Simpson, Davis Polk, Cleary, Latham, Gibson, Kirkland or Skadden. Do not make a huge financial mistake.

why do you think career services told me that the only ones that are a bad idea are Simpson, Cleary, and Davis Polk? They seemed to think that the rest were a good idea... Not doubting you, just curious why they would say that while also saying that their recommendations tend to be a bit on the conservative side?

Couldn't tell you why, but they aren't the ones saddled with debt. Maybe in the boom times some of those firms would be okay, but if I were you I would be focused on getting $160,000 salary, not miniscule bumps up in prestige that probably don't matter in the long run. Maybe if legal hiring picks up by August you will have a shot, but based on the hard gpa cutoffs at some of these firms last year, you will not even be considered. It doesn't matter if you have the best interview of your life.

Would you mind saying approx. what the GPA cutoffs were for Gibson and Kirkland?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:
Simpson, Davis Polk, Cleary, Latham, Gibson, Kirkland and Skadden should come off your list yesterday. These firms all have hard grade cutoffs that you are below. They literally will take one look at your transcript and zone out for the rest of the interview. You are seriously running the risk of not getting an offer by wasting bids like this. As another poster said, you don't want to be that idiot in October without a job because you got greedy. You are not a slam dunk at any firm on your list, so you better interview at as many places as possible that you actually have a chance with. A slight increase in prestige is not worth the significant risk you are taking of being unemployed. As a former NYU student, I know plenty of people with your grades who struck out at EIW. And I don't know anyone with your grades working at Simpson, Davis Polk, Cleary, Latham, Gibson, Kirkland or Skadden. Do not make a huge financial mistake.

why do you think career services told me that the only ones that are a bad idea are Simpson, Cleary, and Davis Polk? They seemed to think that the rest were a good idea... Not doubting you, just curious why they would say that while also saying that their recommendations tend to be a bit on the conservative side?

Couldn't tell you why, but they aren't the ones saddled with debt. Maybe in the boom times some of those firms would be okay, but if I were you I would be focused on getting $160,000 salary, not miniscule bumps up in prestige that probably don't matter in the long run. Maybe if legal hiring picks up by August you will have a shot, but based on the hard gpa cutoffs at some of these firms last year, you will not even be considered. It doesn't matter if you have the best interview of your life.

Would you mind saying approx. what the GPA cutoffs were for Gibson and Kirkland?

I don't know their cutoff but there's no way that Kirkland is going below median

Where did you get the information on the expected number of slots firms will offer for the summer of 2014?

pisagua wrote:Where did you get the information on the expected number of slots firms will offer for the summer of 2014?

these are c/o 2013 numbers. my bad

.