Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job? Forum
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
-
- Posts: 428117
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
I suffer extreme mental fatigue after working for a few hours straight and find that I do my best work by taking frequent short breaks. I'm a K-JD and have always studied in an on-and-off pattern; for instance, 20 minutes of work, 5 minutes of browsing the 'net, 25 minutes of work, 3 minutes to grab a snack, 15 minutes of work, 5 minute walk, and so forth. I can keep going at this rate indefinitely (I studied like this for ~14 hours a day for at least a month before first semester exams - I'm now in the top percentile of my class and working as a 2L SA).
I guess what I'm asking is whether that's an acceptable way to go about my day in a big law firm. I'm more than willing (and intend) to stay later in the day to make up the billable hours I lose by taking these breaks. Is it expected that I will sit at my desk for 10 hours or so every day without looking up from my work except to eat lunch? Should I try to keep my work habits a secret? Or should I try to change?
I guess what I'm asking is whether that's an acceptable way to go about my day in a big law firm. I'm more than willing (and intend) to stay later in the day to make up the billable hours I lose by taking these breaks. Is it expected that I will sit at my desk for 10 hours or so every day without looking up from my work except to eat lunch? Should I try to keep my work habits a secret? Or should I try to change?
-
- Posts: 695
- Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:18 am
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
As long as you aren't conspicuous about it, I don't think it will matter. Moreover, it works for you, fuck what anybody says.Anonymous User wrote:I suffer extreme mental fatigue after working for a few hours straight and find that I do my best work by taking frequent short breaks. I'm a K-JD and have always studied in an on-and-off pattern; for instance, 20 minutes of work, 5 minutes of browsing the 'net, 25 minutes of work, 3 minutes to grab a snack, 15 minutes of work, 5 minute walk, and so forth. I can keep going at this rate indefinitely (I studied like this for ~14 hours a day for at least a month before first semester exams - I'm now in the top percentile of my class and working as a 2L SA).
I guess what I'm asking is whether that's an acceptable way to go about my day in a big law firm. I'm more than willing (and intend) to stay later in the day to make up the billable hours I lose by taking these breaks. Is it expected that I will sit at my desk for 10 hours or so every day without looking up from my work except to eat lunch? Should I try to keep my work habits a secret? Or should I try to change?
-
- Posts: 428117
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
If you cannot sit there for more than 20 mintes without a break, you might encounter some problems because often you get assignments that needed to be out the door 2 hours ago. You need to focus and turn out good quality work product on a tight timeframe. With that said, I often take a lot of mini-breaks too. I keep gmail open all day, gchat with friends, frequently get up for water/coffee/bathroom trips. Of course, I would never advertise that you are taking a lot of little breaks or that you need to do it...people will think you are weird/lazy if you advertise it. Perception matters a LOT. The partners are so busy, they do not have time to think about your schedule or your work habits... so long as they perceive a hard worker who produces good quality, they could give 2 shits about how you accomplish it.
The difference between academia and working is that with work you have real pressure deadlines that you need to meet. Unless you are a procrastinator (like me), you don't get that in academia so much. The pressure helps you focus. I'm sure you will be fine. No sense worrying about what you cannot control.
If you told me before I started at a big firm 3 years ago that I would go through stints of regularly working 15+ hour days (or going on no sleep), I would have never thought I had the physical capacity...but I've done it fine. Better than most. You don't know your limits until you push them.
The difference between academia and working is that with work you have real pressure deadlines that you need to meet. Unless you are a procrastinator (like me), you don't get that in academia so much. The pressure helps you focus. I'm sure you will be fine. No sense worrying about what you cannot control.
If you told me before I started at a big firm 3 years ago that I would go through stints of regularly working 15+ hour days (or going on no sleep), I would have never thought I had the physical capacity...but I've done it fine. Better than most. You don't know your limits until you push them.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 1565
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
Is a bathroom break or getting a cup of coffee enough?Anonymous User wrote:I suffer extreme mental fatigue after working for a few hours straight and find that I do my best work by taking frequent short breaks. I'm a K-JD and have always studied in an on-and-off pattern; for instance, 20 minutes of work, 5 minutes of browsing the 'net, 25 minutes of work, 3 minutes to grab a snack, 15 minutes of work, 5 minute walk, and so forth. I can keep going at this rate indefinitely (I studied like this for ~14 hours a day for at least a month before first semester exams - I'm now in the top percentile of my class and working as a 2L SA).
I guess what I'm asking is whether that's an acceptable way to go about my day in a big law firm. I'm more than willing (and intend) to stay later in the day to make up the billable hours I lose by taking these breaks. Is it expected that I will sit at my desk for 10 hours or so every day without looking up from my work except to eat lunch? Should I try to keep my work habits a secret? Or should I try to change?
Can you sustain this work pattern over months?
- KD35
- Posts: 950
- Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:30 am
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
Also, and this is not personal experience but from the wisdom collected here, I believe you need to bill in 15 min increments anyway, so you need to just be able to work for 15 mins to at least bill the hours.
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
- thesealocust
- Posts: 8525
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
This sounds spot on. Nobody will be standing over your shoulder making sure you pause your timer for a trip to the water fountain or while you pay a credit card bill. If you leave for 30 minutes to meet a friend for coffee, you can make the day progress without missing a beat... most days.Anonymous User wrote:If you cannot sit there for more than 20 mintes without a break, you might encounter some problems because often you get assignments that needed to be out the door 2 hours ago. You need to focus and turn out good quality work product on a tight timeframe. With that said, I often take a lot of mini-breaks too. I keep gmail open all day, gchat with friends, frequently get up for water/coffee/bathroom trips. Of course, I would never advertise that you are taking a lot of little breaks or that you need to do it...people will think you are weird/lazy if you advertise it.
The difference between academia and working is that with work you have real pressure deadlines that you need to meet. Unless you are a procrastinator (like me), you don't get that in academia so much. The pressure helps you focus. I'm sure you will be fine. No sense worrying about what you cannot control.
If you told me before I started at a big firm 3 years ago that I would go through stints of regularly working 15+ hour days (or going on no sleep), I would have never thought I had the physical capacity...but I've done it fine. Better than most. You don't know your limits until you push them.
If you do good work, meet deadlines, and don't smell bad you'll find you can get away with almost anything. To achieve those three goals at an intense biglaw firm will require sometimes insane discipline, but if you make it from A to B in this world nobody really cares how you did it.
adorableKD35 wrote:Also, and this is not personal experience but from the wisdom collected here, I believe you need to bill in 15 min increments anyway, so you need to just be able to work for 15 mins to at least bill the hours.
First, billing increments are usually 1/10th of an hour, i.e. 6 minutes.
Second, you'll discover that billing is more of an art than a science. You have an obligation to honestly record your time, you do not have an obligation to account for every millisecond activity with precision that would withstand an audit.
Last edited by thesealocust on Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 428117
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
6 minute increments, actually.KD35 wrote:Also, and this is not personal experience but from the wisdom collected here, I believe you need to bill in 15 min increments anyway, so you need to just be able to work for 15 mins to at least bill the hours.
And I got out-negotiated by my damn secretary so I'm entering my own time.
-
- Posts: 428117
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
No one will care about your work habits as long as you can complete your assignments on time. Sometimes you'll need to work for several hours without interruption to meet a deadline; other times you'll be able to take as many Internet and coffee breaks as you desire.
That said, if you end up taking tons of breaks, you'll probably either (a) spend way more time in the office than you should, or (b) keep the timer running during lengthy Internet breaks. Assuming you don't want to spend an extra two hours/day at the office or commit fraud, it's proabably best to learn how to focus.
That said, if you end up taking tons of breaks, you'll probably either (a) spend way more time in the office than you should, or (b) keep the timer running during lengthy Internet breaks. Assuming you don't want to spend an extra two hours/day at the office or commit fraud, it's proabably best to learn how to focus.
-
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Mon May 23, 2011 5:14 pm
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
Setting aside the question of whether you SHOULD get a bad rep, if you get a reputation as someone who can't work for more than a half hour or so without losing focus, it's going to be really bad as a junior associate. I mean, this is literally the biggest gripe about millenials. Everything you do wrong will be blamed on a short attention span. If I was you, I'd go out of my way to avoid giving the impression that I can only concentrate on something for an hour or two at a time.I suffer extreme mental fatigue after working for a few hours straight and find that I do my best work by taking frequent short breaks. I'm a K-JD and have always studied in an on-and-off pattern; for instance, 20 minutes of work, 5 minutes of browsing the 'net, 25 minutes of work, 3 minutes to grab a snack, 15 minutes of work, 5 minute walk, and so forth. I can keep going at this rate indefinitely (I studied like this for ~14 hours a day for at least a month before first semester exams - I'm now in the top percentile of my class and working as a 2L SA).
- KD35
- Posts: 950
- Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:30 am
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
Random amount of time...that's dumb.Anonymous User wrote:6 minute increments, actually.KD35 wrote:Also, and this is not personal experience but from the wisdom collected here, I believe you need to bill in 15 min increments anyway, so you need to just be able to work for 15 mins to at least bill the hours.
And I got out-negotiated by my damn secretary so I'm entering my own time.
- A. Nony Mouse
- Posts: 29293
- Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
1/10 of an hour, so no more random than 15 minutes.KD35 wrote:Random amount of time...that's dumb.Anonymous User wrote:6 minute increments, actually.KD35 wrote:Also, and this is not personal experience but from the wisdom collected here, I believe you need to bill in 15 min increments anyway, so you need to just be able to work for 15 mins to at least bill the hours.
And I got out-negotiated by my damn secretary so I'm entering my own time.
-
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:40 pm
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
A lot of practices bill in 1/6s or 10 minute increments too, I think only bankruptcy is tied down to 1/10s...
- A. Nony Mouse
- Posts: 29293
- Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
No, the general litigation firm I worked for billed in 6 min. increments.kryptix wrote:A lot of practices bill in 1/6s or 10 minute increments too, I think only bankruptcy is tied down to 1/10s...
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:39 pm
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
6 minutes here tooA. Nony Mouse wrote:No, the general litigation firm I worked for billed in 6 min. increments.kryptix wrote:A lot of practices bill in 1/6s or 10 minute increments too, I think only bankruptcy is tied down to 1/10s...
To op: it won't matter unless you cant get work done on time imo, but it depends on the firm i would assume. I mean do you think anyone actually works 10-12 hours everyday in an office
- thesealocust
- Posts: 8525
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
I derive special joy from popping onto TLS inbetween emergencies, fire drills, etc. during the day. There's also a 98% chance that facebook/gchat/youtube/whatever are open in the tabs of an attorney whose computer I see at any given point during the day.
Lawyers are, despite what you may have been lead to believe, humans too.
Lawyers are, despite what you may have been lead to believe, humans too.
- kalvano
- Posts: 11951
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
The ultimate answer is that no one cares as long as you aren't obvious about it, get your work done in a timely fashion, and are billing accurately.
But the real issue is that this is, ultimately, an unsustainable way to work in the real world.
But the real issue is that this is, ultimately, an unsustainable way to work in the real world.
- Bronte
- Posts: 2125
- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:44 pm
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
Not sure why we're debating this, but it is definitely the case that some practices at some firms bill in larger increments. Bankruptcy courts require by law that fee applications come in tenth of an hour increments, so they are "tied down" like he said.A. Nony Mouse wrote:No, the general litigation firm I worked for billed in 6 min. increments.kryptix wrote:A lot of practices bill in 1/6s or 10 minute increments too, I think only bankruptcy is tied down to 1/10s...
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
- A. Nony Mouse
- Posts: 29293
- Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
Oh, I didn't mean no firms used other increments or that 1/10 was required of all firms. I just meant that it isn't only BK firms that bill in 1/10s (I read the "only bankruptcy" bit as meaning "only BK firms bill in 1/10s," not as "only BK firms *are required* to bill in 1/10s," my bad).Bronte wrote:Not sure why we're debating this, but it is definitely the case that some practices at some firms bill in larger increments. Bankruptcy courts require by law that fee applications come in tenth of an hour increments, so they are "tied down" like he said.A. Nony Mouse wrote:No, the general litigation firm I worked for billed in 6 min. increments.kryptix wrote:A lot of practices bill in 1/6s or 10 minute increments too, I think only bankruptcy is tied down to 1/10s...
- Bronte
- Posts: 2125
- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:44 pm
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
No problem. Phew, glad we got that cleared up though.A. Nony Mouse wrote:Oh, I didn't mean no firms used other increments or that 1/10 was required of all firms. I just meant that it isn't only BK firms that bill in 1/10s (I read the "only bankruptcy" bit as meaning "only BK firms bill in 1/10s," not as "only BK firms *are required* to bill in 1/10s," my bad).
-
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:40 pm
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
Haha thanks for defending me. Yeah that's what I meant, for us it's 1/10ths in general, 1/6ths for BK, and some clients get what they want, such as each task broken down by line in 1/10ths rather than 6.84 hours: Conference call re: matter; legal research re: the same; drafting re: te same.Bronte wrote:No problem. Phew, glad we got that cleared up though.A. Nony Mouse wrote:Oh, I didn't mean no firms used other increments or that 1/10 was required of all firms. I just meant that it isn't only BK firms that bill in 1/10s (I read the "only bankruptcy" bit as meaning "only BK firms bill in 1/10s," not as "only BK firms *are required* to bill in 1/10s," my bad).
There's no point in worrying if your busy.
- Pokemon
- Posts: 3528
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:58 pm
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
I am the same way. But, if you are busy, a break every twenty minutes sounds too much since it does not let you concentrate. Especially, if your break is to browse the net, since it takes some time to get back to the idea where you are at and the net is not relaxing to the brain.
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- Barack O'Drama
- Posts: 3272
- Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:21 pm
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
This may be naive on my part, but... besides integrity/committing fraud what deters attorneys from fudging their billable hours?
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- A. Nony Mouse
- Posts: 29293
- Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
Well, integrity and not wanting to commit fraud...Barack O'Drama wrote:This may be naive on my part, but... besides integrity/committing fraud what deters attorneys from fudging their billable hours?
Also, a lot of the time whoever's looking at your hours has some sense of how long things should take - obviously that's not infallible, but if everything do is taking longer than it should, someone would probably notice. Whether this would bother a firm or not is a totally different question, but I think if you're padding significantly and no one else is, someone would notice. (Operative words: significantly and no one else. If you're working somewhere everyone pads their hours...)
Of course, an obvious way to get caught is to be working on an assignment with other people, and put down more time than they do.
- Barack O'Drama
- Posts: 3272
- Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:21 pm
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
TY Good points!
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- A. Nony Mouse
- Posts: 29293
- Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am
Re: Are frequent breaks unacceptable during biglaw job?
Keep in mind I may be naive to think anyone cares! Whenever padding hours come up here, you get a debate between "how dare you presume I would treat my client that way or my firm would accept it!" and "everybody pads their hours, it's basically required, and you'll get fired if you don't." My only experience is as a SA so I can't weigh in on that. I think my shorter point is that the firm looks over your hours before they bill a client, so they should at least fit firm norms (whatever those may be).
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login