Tax LLM Forum

[rad lulz]

Sans accounting or business background, I couldn't find any of the big 4 (or Grant Thornton etc.) that are looking to hire non LLMs in tax groups.

[Anonymous User]

For what its worth, I do not have a CPA or an LLM and I have been hired into a big 4 specialty group in a secondary market. The vast majority of the individuals in my group are lawyers, and the non-lawyers are very senior. My starting salary is also far greater than that of a CPA.

How much greater? I know a 2012 grad who went to E&Y tax at $80-90K base in DC. Non-LLM and no accounting background. Just want to get a general idea of the range.

That's the range.

[Hattori Hanzo]

Sans accounting or business background, I couldn't find any of the big 4 (or Grant Thornton etc.) that are looking to hire non LLMs in tax groups.

Have you covered all the way down to super regionals? I know a couple of people without business exp. working in tax. One at E&Y and one at Moss Adams in CA.

The big 4 also hire JDs for non-legal positions in consulting.

[rad lulz]

Sans accounting or business background, I couldn't find any of the big 4 (or Grant Thornton etc.) that are looking to hire non LLMs in tax groups.

Have you covered all the way down to super regionals? I know a couple of people without business exp. working in tax. One at E&Y and one at Moss Adams in CA.

The big 4 also hire JDs for non-legal positions in consulting.

Should have been more clear. UG business or accounting degree.

[Hattori Hanzo]

Sans accounting or business background, I couldn't find any of the big 4 (or Grant Thornton etc.) that are looking to hire non LLMs in tax groups.

Have you covered all the way down to super regionals? I know a couple of people without business exp. working in tax. One at E&Y and one at Moss Adams in CA.

The big 4 also hire JDs for non-legal positions in consulting.

Should have been more clear. UG business or accounting degree.

That makes sense. I don't know how strong the market for tax LLMs in accounting firms is, but if it getting a tax LLM increases employment prospects significantly, it could be worth it even considering the extra debt. Also a note on big4 starting salaries, even though they are considerably lower than biglaw salaries, the bonuses are larger (25-30% in consulting). Also the first promotion can come as early as one year in, which adds another $10-20K to the base.

[Anonymous User]

What is exactly the starting salary (w/LLM) at big 4?

[Anonymous User]

What is exactly the starting salary (w/LLM) at big 4?

No LLM, just JD here. Will start at EY/PwC (don't want to out myself). NY/LA/Chi, Low 100K+. So it's OK, and the hours are better.

Edit: non-accounting biz major in undergrad.

[synergy]

What is exactly the starting salary (w/LLM) at big 4?

No LLM, just JD here. Will start at EY/PwC (don't want to out myself). NY/LA/Chi, Low 100K+. So it's OK, and the hours are better.

Edit: non-accounting biz major in undergrad.

What exactly does a JD do at a big 4?

[Anonymous User]

What is exactly the starting salary (w/LLM) at big 4?

No LLM, just JD here. Will start at EY/PwC (don't want to out myself). NY/LA/Chi, Low 100K+. So it's OK, and the hours are better.

Edit: non-accounting biz major in undergrad.

What exactly does a JD do at a big 4?

Take care of the tax side of transactions. So basically tax+consulting.

[ManoftheHour]

What is exactly the starting salary (w/LLM) at big 4?

I've heard that it's around 70-80k. You'd take care of some legal work but you also do a lot of consulting.

[ManoftheHour]

On this subject, if one wants a career as a tax attorney:

-How much does where you get your JD from matter?
-How significant is having an accounting background?
-Is CPA certification useful to becoming employed as a tax attorney or is it just a waste of effort?

Sorry if any of these questions sound completely stupid. 0L here.

[nealric]

On this subject, if one wants a career as a tax attorney:

-How much does where you get your JD from matter?
-How significant is having an accounting background?
-Is CPA certification useful to becoming employed as a tax attorney or is it just a waste of effort?

1. Extremely important. T14 or bust, but the better the school, the easier your path will be.
2. It's a plus, but not necessary
3. It's a plus if you are already a CPA, but it's not worth becoming one for the purposes of getting a tax position

[Anonymous User]

What is exactly the starting salary (w/LLM) at big 4?

I've heard that it's around 70-80k. You'd take care of some legal work but you also do a lot of consulting.

Mine is 100K+, and I do not even have an LLM. I believe that big4 are trying to upgrade their tax law depts to compete with law firms.

[Anonymous User]

On this subject, if one wants a career as a tax attorney:

-How much does where you get your JD from matter?
-How significant is having an accounting background?
-Is CPA certification useful to becoming employed as a tax attorney or is it just a waste of effort?

Sorry if any of these questions sound completely stupid. 0L here.

Just to add

1. A good school is important. I believe that my T14 made things much easier.
2. Not necessary, but you should be well-versed in business/economics. You have to be the business-type person who can mix tax with biz strategies and numbers.
3. See nealric

[patrickd139]

NYU LLM student here. Echoing those posters above about not going to double down on job prospects. So many people are doing that here and it's not working out at all.

I also have a very good friend who is going to one of EY/PwC with no undergrad business degree, but with the JD/tax LLM combo. S/he's starting at $115k on the West coast in one if their M&A departments.

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

I am impressed, I thought the Big 4 usually started JDs out sub-100k.

How common is it for someone to go Biglawl -----> Big 4? Or do the accounting firms usually like to groom their lawyers from the beginning?

[ManoftheHour]

On this subject, if one wants a career as a tax attorney:

-How much does where you get your JD from matter?
-How significant is having an accounting background?
-Is CPA certification useful to becoming employed as a tax attorney or is it just a waste of effort?

Sorry if any of these questions sound completely stupid. 0L here.

Just to add

1. A good school is important. I believe that my T14 made things much easier.
2. Not necessary, but you should be well-versed in business/economics. You have to be the business-type person who can mix tax with biz strategies and numbers.
3. See nealric

Assuming I can get into a T14 next cycle, what are the next steps to attaining such a job (other than good grades since that's probably a given for any good legal job out there)?

Thanks for the info so far btw.

[donzoli]

Any idea what a JD + MBA would start out at at the Big4?

[Anonymous User]

Any idea what a JD + MBA would start out at at the Big4?

I am sure it helps.

[Anonymous User]

NYU LLM student here. Echoing those posters above about not going to double down on job prospects. So many people are doing that here and it's not working out at all.

I also have a very good friend who is going to one of EY/PwC with no undergrad business degree, but with the JD/tax LLM combo. S/he's starting at $115k on the West coast in one if their M&A departments.

Do you know what his hours are like?

[patrickd139]

NYU LLM student here. Echoing those posters above about not going to double down on job prospects. So many people are doing that here and it's not working out at all.

I also have a very good friend who is going to one of EY/PwC with no undergrad business degree, but with the JD/tax LLM combo. S/he's starting at $115k on the West coast in one if their M&A departments.

Do you know what his hours are like?

Hasn't started yet, but I've heard they're going to be standard consulting hours (think biglaw light).

[donzoli]

Any idea what a JD + MBA would start out at at the Big4?

I am sure it helps.

Do they tend to negotiate much on salary?

[Anonymous User]

Any idea what a JD + MBA would start out at at the Big4?

I am sure it helps.

Do they tend to negotiate much on salary?

No, if it's just entry-level.

[Anonymous User]

Wondering if anyone here summered with the big 4?

I'm a 1L, interviewing with a big 4 national office soon and wondering if they do split summers? Is it normal that they are interviewing so early for 2L summer?

[Anonymous User]

What is exactly the starting salary (w/LLM) at big 4?

I've heard that it's around 70-80k. You'd take care of some legal work but you also do a lot of consulting.

Mine is 100K+, and I do not even have an LLM. I believe that big4 are trying to upgrade their tax law depts to compete with law firms.

I know it is 70-80k as entry level in major market (think SF/LA etc) but if you have prior experience or something, you can negotiate upwards.