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I wasnt trying to brag, I am actually just looking for advice. Anyway could you delete the quote please. I have friends at school who know me on here, so dont want them knowing my class rank. I would appreciate it.

NP

Can you unquote please? This was not intended for 1Ls. I am hoping to receive advice from a couple 2/3Ls or those graduated who know about the TX market.

The 4 week return is NBD, assuming they let you choose when you do it. My school's summers are around 4 months, I'm assuming yours is, and most SA programs are 10 weeks (some are 12). You'll be able to do a full SA somewhere else while still doing the extra 4 weeks at FJ. You can even skip the first couple weeks of fall classes during 3L if you need to.

bk187 wrote:The 4 week return is NBD, assuming they let you choose when you do it. My school's summers are around 4 months, I'm assuming yours is, and most SA programs are 10 weeks (some are 12). You'll be able to do a full SA somewhere else while still doing the extra 4 weeks at FJ. You can even skip the first couple weeks of fall classes during 3L if you need to.

This. The returning to your 1L firm for a few weeks of your 2L summer is pretty standard; firms just want another chance to recruit you before you accept an offer. No clue on the Texas firms. I know Susman Godfrey is a Houston-based firm with an extremely strong litigation practice, so you should consider them for your 2L summer.

JO 14 wrote:I am certain you will receive lots of great advice because, like you, most 1Ls are flooded with 1L SA offers.

So because he has multiple 1L SA offers he shouldn't be able to ask for and receive advice?

http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/Editorial/43355

Note that F&J is in the process of completing a large merger with Norton Rose. These megamergers have historically created some potential for turbulence, depending on how smoothly the integration of disparate firm cultures goes. It may take some time for any fallout to be felt at the associate level, but it's worth asking questions about.

Thanks for the advice guys. I know my summer, at least this summer, is 14 weeks.

One question I had is if people think that taking Fulbright over V&E for litigation is a good choice? I will be applying to Susman, hopefully I will meet their crazy grade requirements, but they only do 2L SA programs (it only 4 weeks). Does anyone have any advice on the difference of FJ and Lock Lord?

iconoclasttt wrote:http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/Editorial/43355

Note that F&J is in the process of completing a large merger with Norton Rose. These megamergers have historically created some potential for turbulence, depending on how smoothly the integration of disparate firm cultures goes. It may take some time for any fallout to be felt at the associate level, but it's worth asking questions about.

This is something to think about. I dont know that it will hurt them as Norton Rose does not have an office in the US, so the problems that Dewey hit (competing interests) will likely not be as big a factor, but still something to think about.

My roommate did lit at Fulbright Houston after 1L last summer. He loved it, and will be back for 2L summer 4 weeks. The 4 week stip did not stop him from getting 2 other 2L summer gigs at lit boutiques also. If you keep your grades up, you should have as good a shot as anyone the following year at the likes of Beck Redden, Gibbs & Bruns, or maybe even Susman (not that you should want such a thing).

Split Fulbright and AK if you can.

Cade McNown wrote:My roommate did lit at Fulbright Houston after 1L last summer. He loved it, and will be back for 2L summer 4 weeks. The 4 week stip did not stop him from getting 2 other 2L summer gigs at lit boutiques also. If you keep your grades up, you should have as good a shot as anyone the following year at the likes of Beck Redden, Gibbs & Bruns, or maybe even Susman (not that you should want such a thing).

Split Fulbright and AK if you can.

Thank you for this. Firstly, why not Susman? I think if I had the chance I would try it out, their work is high level, associates are kind of thrown into the fire (from what I have heard) which I like, compensation is absolutely out of this world... I dont know.

Would you take AK for 2nd over Locke Lord?

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the advice guys. I know my summer, at least this summer, is 14 weeks.

One question I had is if people think that taking Fulbright over V&E for litigation is a good choice? I will be applying to Susman, hopefully I will meet their crazy grade requirements, but they only do 2L SA programs (it only 4 weeks). Does anyone have any advice on the difference of FJ and Lock Lord?

Fulbright is tcr for lit. in Texas. V&E focuses much more on transactional work, esp. oil & gas. I was really unimpressed when I interviewed with V&E lit people last semester. Locke Lord has a good reputation in Texas, but it is not in the "Big 3" category (F&J, V&E, Baker Botts), its a half step behind AK, and its behind the more national firms with TX offices like Weil or Akin.

AssumptionRequired wrote:

iconoclasttt wrote:http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/Editorial/43355

Note that F&J is in the process of completing a large merger with Norton Rose. These megamergers have historically created some potential for turbulence, depending on how smoothly the integration of disparate firm cultures goes. It may take some time for any fallout to be felt at the associate level, but it's worth asking questions about.

This is something to think about. I dont know that it will hurt them as Norton Rose does not have an office in the US, so the problems that Dewey hit (competing interests) will likely not be as big a factor, but still something to think about.

They are not really "merging" they are forming a verein. The profit pools for the US (F&J) and the rest of the world (Norton Rose) will be kept separate. I'm sure there is some referral agreement to get credit for passing work between offices. It's really only to give the client the impression that the firm is larger than it is and that it can offer additional services/expertise.

hogan lovells, DLA Piper, and Baker McKenzie also have this structure.

Anonymous User wrote:why not Susman?

All of the top tier lit. boutiques offer long hours, great work, & greater pay. But Susman attys love themselves more for it.

Anonymous User wrote:Would you take AK for 2nd over Locke Lord?

Cade McNown wrote:Split Fulbright and AK if you can.

^

Everyone I know who worked at Fulbright really enjoyed it.

Cade McNown wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:why not Susman?

All of the top tier lit. boutiques offer long hours, great work, & greater pay. But Susman attys love themselves more for it.

Anonymous User wrote:Would you take AK for 2nd over Locke Lord?

Cade McNown wrote:Split Fulbright and AK if you can.

^

People have different reactions to Susman. My buddy and I had a great time with all the attorneys (we both accepted our summer offers), but a few of our friends seemed pretty turned off by them. I didn't really see it, but I guess it depends on the person. All that being said, make up your own mind about em.

Anonymous User wrote:
People have different reactions to Susman. My buddy and I had a great time with all the attorneys (we both accepted our summer offers), but a few of our friends seemed pretty turned off by them. I didn't really see it, but I guess it depends on the person. All that being said, make up your own mind about em.

Do you have any idea what their grade cut off is? Top 15% at MVP good enough? Or do I need to kill it and grade onto law review? Is it easier to get into their Houston office than Dallas or LA, which are much smaller.

Are F&J and VE first half and LL with AK and LL being second half? Or is it something different? If that is the set-up, there really isn't any wrong choices here. F&J is more litigation orientated than VE, but VE still is one of the top 3 and is ranked band one by chambers for litigation in Texas (yes, I know chambers rankings aren't perfect). (For those not impressed with VE's lit department in Houston: Was a good chunk of it poached recently? I know Latham has been stealing energy people from VE and other TX firms, but I didn't think they were targeting lit people.) F&J does have other distractions swirling around it too. Overall, I would still choose F&J, but I don't think it's a right/wrong decision.

As for AK v. LL: If it were me, I might lean somewhat more towards LL, because AK is much more transactional (they're really good at that, but the impression I have of them is that they are much better for transactional work than they are for lit). Overall, though, there really isn't a big prestige difference between the two and you might be best off going to the place where you liked the atmosphere the most and felt like you could connect with the people better.

What the fuck is all of this "just do Susman, bro" bullshit

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:
People have different reactions to Susman. My buddy and I had a great time with all the attorneys (we both accepted our summer offers), but a few of our friends seemed pretty turned off by them. I didn't really see it, but I guess it depends on the person. All that being said, make up your own mind about em.

Do you have any idea what their grade cut off is? Top 15% at MVP good enough? Or do I need to kill it and grade onto law review? Is it easier to get into their Houston office than Dallas or LA, which are much smaller.

From what I can tell, the standards are pretty even across offices. They take so few summers that it's pretty difficult to determine what your chances are. I think a lot of it comes down to personality (once you're in the grade ballpark). This is a complete guess, but I think you'd have a hard time getting a callback if you were top 15% without law review.

rad lulz wrote:What the fuck is all of this "just do Susman, bro" bullshit

^This. Susman doesn't even really have an official summer program (it's like 4 weeks?) and you have to get an AIII clerkship if you want to work there. (Plus, there are a good amount of other great lit boutiques in houston as well--but that should be potentially a goal for next summer: splitting between a lit boutique and a large firm. Can be hard to do, but probably the best set-up up for someone really wanting to do litigation.)

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:

rad lulz wrote:What the fuck is all of this "just do Susman, bro" bullshit

^This. Susman doesn't even really have an official summer program (it's like 4 weeks?) and you have to get an AIII clerkship if you want to work there. (Plus, there are a good amount of other great lit boutiques in houston as well--but that should be potentially a goal for next summer: splitting between a lit boutique and a large firm. Can be hard to do, but probably the best set-up up for someone really wanting to do litigation.)

Anonymous User wrote:Do you have any idea what their grade cut off is? Top 15% at MVP good enough? Or do I need to kill it and grade onto law review? Is it easier to get into their Houston office than Dallas or LA, which are much smaller.

Top 15% probably isn't good enough. I don't know for sure, but I would hazard that Houston is easier due to the higher number of SAs. While the clerkship thing is a concern, it's probably not as much of a concern since if you have grades for Susman you probably have a decent shot at a clerkship. The program is 4 weeks so of course you'd split with someone else.

That being said, Susman isn't for everybody and you really shouldn't be thinking about Susman now since it isn't an option. Worry about picking between your current offers and doing well on your second set of 1L exams.

Anonymous User wrote:One question I had is if people think that taking Fulbright over V&E for litigation is a good choice? Does anyone have any advice on the difference of FJ and Lock Lord?

I did not have an offer from F&J as a 2L but did from V&E and LL in Houston. The sense I had of V&E is that the litigation group is a bit smaller (some of their litigators consider that a plus) than their corporate groups. I was concerned about the fact that corporate drives the firm while litigation is incidental to the firm's strategy. Additionally, this is true of all the large firms in Texas to some extent, but V&E has had a fair number of people, including partners, leave to go to boutiques in recent years. That is something to keep in mind when comparing the litigation groups of the various large firms.

As for LL, its Houston office used to be a separate firm known as Liddell Sapp. It merged with the Dallas office and the firm merged with a Chicago firm to form LL a few years ago. Keep in mind that it is not the headquarters office like F&J and V&E in Houston. The office is smaller than the big 3, but has plenty of nice people. One thing to keep in mind is that LL's Houston office has a free market system (at least for summers), and they encourage you to be in control of the direction of your career. V&E has their summers choose a two or three groups and has summer spend a couple of weeks in each one. I'm not sure about F&J, but it may be different from LL in that way...I will say that LL is not as well regarded as either V&E or F&J in Houston. At the same time, LL is more dedicated to litigation than V&E and the firm's leadership acts like it is a growing firm with room to expand.

Richie, I just noticed your question about V&E. I talked to an associate that lateraled out the firm. He said it is not so much that partners are getting poached as a few are just leaving to go to boutiques to have more flexible fee structures and fewer client conflicts. There was a steady exit at one time (that has likely dissipated somewhat recently) and V&E is not making as much of an effort to replace them as they are with the corporate folks from what I understand. That said, they are still a great firm with great work.

HTH.

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the advice guys. I know my summer, at least this summer, is 14 weeks.

One question I had is if people think that taking Fulbright over V&E for litigation is a good choice? I will be applying to Susman, hopefully I will meet their crazy grade requirements, but they only do 2L SA programs (it only 4 weeks). Does anyone have any advice on the difference of FJ and Lock Lord?

Fulbright is slightly more formal, more staid. They take work seriously and don't fraternize too much on the job. Locke Lord is full of personalities, and they are fun people both on and off the job. Both firms have great people and a pleasant culture. The work can be a bit different and the work environment is more lively at Locke.

-A grad who summered at both

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:Are F&J and VE first half and LL with AK and LL being second half? Or is it something different? If that is the set-up, there really isn't any wrong choices here. F&J is more litigation orientated than VE, but VE still is one of the top 3 and is ranked band one by chambers for litigation in Texas (yes, I know chambers rankings aren't perfect). (For those not impressed with VE's lit department in Houston: Was a good chunk of it poached recently? I know Latham has been stealing energy people from VE and other TX firms, but I didn't think they were targeting lit people.) F&J does have other distractions swirling around it too. Overall, I would still choose F&J, but I don't think it's a right/wrong decision.

As for AK v. LL: If it were me, I might lean somewhat more towards LL, because AK is much more transactional (they're really good at that, but the impression I have of them is that they are much better for transactional work than they are for lit). Overall, though, there really isn't a big prestige difference between the two and you might be best off going to the place where you liked the atmosphere the most and felt like you could connect with the people better.

A bunch of V&E litigators went to Mayer Brown and other northern firms that recently opened offices in Houston.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:
People have different reactions to Susman. My buddy and I had a great time with all the attorneys (we both accepted our summer offers), but a few of our friends seemed pretty turned off by them. I didn't really see it, but I guess it depends on the person. All that being said, make up your own mind about em.

Do you have any idea what their grade cut off is? Top 15% at MVP good enough? Or do I need to kill it and grade onto law review? Is it easier to get into their Houston office than Dallas or LA, which are much smaller.

You need to: (1) get a federal clerkship (they only hire former clerks); and (2) have a stellar resume. You need to kill it.