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Hey everyone -

Are there any 2L or 3L CLSers who are in the bottom third? Im kind of freaking out after grades (B, B, B+, Pass). I dont really know what I did wrong. I read Getting to Maybe, studied more than 90% of people and, because I followed TLS collected wisdom, I feel like I studied efficiently and effectively.

Im changing a lot of things to get better grades this semester, but Im wondering about my job situation. I have a pretty large network of attorneys and general counsels who I know, and I have a really impressive soft. But how tough of a time am I going to have at EIP if I dont unfuck my grades?

What firms should I be targeting in my networking (assuming I get similar grades, or let's say a B+ average next semester)?

See if Columbia has their own spreadsheet of firms and then the median grade of the people who were given callbacks/offers during EIP. Are you a 1L? Maybe your career office hasn't spoken to you about EIP yet. I'm 2L at NYU and our career office waits until later this second semester to talk to the 1Ls about bidding strategy for EIP.

Yes, Im a 1L. I went to career services today seeking that info. It wasnt really available from last year yet. Apparently it's almost done and she said to come back in about 2 weeks.

Just looking for some hearsay evidence from fellow bottom thirders. Im not so much worried about EIP bidding at this point. Im just kinda scared that I wont get a job.

I'm not at CLS, but you should stop thinking about jobs right now. Focus all of your efforts on school. A good semester will put you back at median, which is a decent place to be at CLS. Go to all of your professors and review your exams in order to figure out where you are lacking.

OutCold wrote:I'm not at CLS, but you should stop thinking about jobs right now. Focus all of your efforts on school. A good semester will put you back at median, which is a decent place to be at CLS. Go to all of your professors and review your exams in order to figure out where you are lacking.

+1.

You say you studied more than 90% of everyone else. Are you referring to all semester long or just during finals season? If you're referring to finals season alone, you might be working backwards. It's impossible to overcome someone who consistently pays attention throughout the semester and studys decently well during finals.

Here are my three pieces of advice that helped me stay at the top of my class:

1.) Never miss a class
2.) Take ridicuously good notes (outline during class)
3.) Don't rely on supplements unless told to do so by the professor

I had all of my outline done before finals even started. Torts was done before Thanksgiving. I realize I could get straight As during my spring semester, and Im focusing 95% of my energy on that. This is my 5% talking.

OutCold wrote:A good semester will put you back at median, which is a decent place to be at CLS.

I would be thrilled with median at this point. Honestly, that's where I belong, and Im fine with that. People here are wicked smart.

2L at CLS here. I finished just below median last year (about half and half Bs and B+s). I did really well at EIP without any of the normal boosts (diversity, work experience, IP background). Just work hard spring semester, engage your network of attorneys throughout the summer, bid on a mix of firms with large classes and firms in the V50-100 range, and make sure you have sharpened your interview skills. This will give you solid shot at desirable employment.

Anonymous User wrote:

OutCold wrote:A good semester will put you back at median, which is a decent place to be at CLS.

I would be thrilled with median at this point. Honestly, that's where I belong, and Im fine with that. People here are wicked smart.

If you studied as hard as you say you did, your problem probably lies in how you wrote your exams. Maybe you didn't argue both sides of each issue; maybe you didn't argue in enough depth; maybe you argued in too much depth and didn't get through all of the issues; maybe you missed the important issues; maybe you didn't throw in the policy argument that the professor brought up several times throughout the semester. I'm just speculating, but point is that you will be too if you don't go back and review the exams with the professors to figure out what they wanted that you didn't include. If you put in the same work you did last semester, but work with your eye on filling in the gaps in those past exams, you'll be in a much better place.

And as I said, you really aren't in a bad place. No B-s or anything. A mix of A-s and B+s will put you in a good place. Don't even worry about being bottom 1/3 until that is your actual situation going into OCI (or EIP).

Don't worry OP, you should be fine with those grades. I'm 3L at CLS and I know people with very similar grades who did fine. Also, I dont think those grades put you in bottom 1/3. If you manage to snag one A- next semester you'll be fine (and even if you don't, you'll still be alright). PM me for more info if you want.

I know a CLS grad who never got a grade higher than a B+ and ended up in an entry level associate gig that pays 140k in a secondary market.

YMMV of course, and you'll have to look outside of the major firms and major cities, but my understanding is that if you aren't socially awkward, going to CLS is probably enough.

Thanks for the encouragement.

I actually grew up in a strong secondary market that I wouldnt mind living in, so that's always an option. Push comes to shove, I'll just become a porn star. My first movie will be "The 12(b)(69)".

[quote="Anonymous User"]I know a CLS grad who never got a grade higher than a B+ and ended up in an entry level associate gig that pays 140k in a secondary market.

YMMV of course, and you'll have to look outside of the major firms and major cities, but my understanding is that if you aren't socially awkward, going to CLS is probably enough.[/quote]

LOL assuming he/she didn't get a substantial number of B-'s or worse, those aren't bad grades.

I'm the anon BruceWayne quoted:

He/shee got one B+ everything else was b's, b-'s for the entire three years.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm the anon BruceWayne quoted:

He/shee got one B+ everything else was b's, b-'s for the entire three years.

When did he/she graduate? If it was 2007 or before, this might not be so relevant anymore (Also, I like how you think by giving away this person's gender you would be outing their identity, lol.)

OutCold wrote:I'm not at CLS, but you should stop thinking about jobs right now. Focus all of your efforts on school. A good semester will put you back at median, which is a decent place to be at CLS. Go to all of your professors and review your exams in order to figure out where you are lacking.

+1.

By the way, how much you study means jack shit. If you get good at what law school exams are testing on and can find a good outline, you can ace the exam without attending the class.

Put another way, doubling the amount of time you spend highlighting case law won't help.

It is way too fucking early to be worrying about EIP especially with no B-s. Refocus yourself and if you're still medianish in a few months bump this thread. I knew a few people who went from the B/B+ average to V5 firms with a killer second semester.

thesealocust wrote:

OutCold wrote:I'm not at CLS, but you should stop thinking about jobs right now. Focus all of your efforts on school. A good semester will put you back at median, which is a decent place to be at CLS. Go to all of your professors and review your exams in order to figure out where you are lacking.

+1.

By the way, how much you study means jack shit. If you get good at what law school exams are testing on and can find a good outline, you can ace the exam without attending the class.

Put another way, doubling the amount of time you spend highlighting case law won't help.

I dont highlight anything and really feel like I study smart. I follow all of the wisdom on TLS.

timbs4339 wrote:It is way too fucking early to be worrying about EIP especially with no B-s. Refocus yourself and if you're still medianish in a few months bump this thread. I knew a few people who went from the B/B+ average to V5 firms with a killer second semester.

Youre absolutely right. Touche. I guess Im not so much worried about EIP as I am about being a fucking retard.

KidStuddi wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm the anon BruceWayne quoted:

He/shee got one B+ everything else was b's, b-'s for the entire three years.

When did he/she graduate? If it was 2007 or before, this might not be so relevant anymore (Also, I like how you think by giving away this person's gender you would be outing their identity, lol.)

2012 grad, and I do what I want, lol.

If you can make it through this next semester without any B-'s, I wouldn't be too concerned. Obviously the higher your grades are the better, but even knocking out nothing but B's you are still in the running. If you can improve your grades, even slightly, I would give you good odds of coming out okay.

NYU c/o 2012.

First semester: B, B, B
Second semester: B+, B+, B+

EIW in summer 2010 --> 8 CBs (V15 +)


Took offer at firm in the V20s.

I had 2 years of good work experience and I got an offer from every callback (so not bad at interviewing).

Still, to get the CB, for many of the most selective firms, it's 90% grades. My grades were weak, I guess. (I still think I was median, but whatever, I don't actually know the numbers for NYU).

Either way, you know what you have to do now. But, don't feel hopeless at all. Even if you stay roughly the same, you will likely have some decent options.

Thanks everyone, especially the above anon poster!

So Im no longer shitting my pants, and Im trying to take a realistic approach to this. I actually am a "good" networker. I have reached out and spoken/met with 4 associates of varying experience levels, and I now consider them "in my network." Also with 2 general counsels. Ive been working on this since before finals even started, and it's really worked out well. But my primary concern at this point is ensuring that I network at the approprirate firms. Im obviously not working at Wachtell, so I have no need to focus my energy there. And obviously I dont know all of my grades yet. All of this to say -- can a 3L or 2L at CLS email me the excel doc from last year with the median GPAs (or whatever) from EIP? Obvious the medians change, not necessarily indicative of success, etc. But Im just trying to get an idea of what firms I should be focusing my networking efforts at. This includes focusing on their lunch/dinner events that are starting to become daily occurrences here, but also my more personal networking efforts. I just dont want to waste my time talking to a guy from Cleary, for example, if 80% of the time they only give CBs for Stone/Kent. If so, please send to rmatterman@yahoo.com (this is not my real name - it's my "spam" email).

I would really appreciate it!

Thanks.

bump

Would love to know your approach for bumping up your grades! Well done.

Anonymous User wrote:NYU c/o 2012.

First semester: B, B, B
Second semester: B+, B+, B+

EIW in summer 2010 --> 8 CBs (V15 +)


Took offer at firm in the V20s.

I had 2 years of good work experience and I got an offer from every callback (so not bad at interviewing).

Still, to get the CB, for many of the most selective firms, it's 90% grades. My grades were weak, I guess. (I still think I was median, but whatever, I don't actually know the numbers for NYU).

Either way, you know what you have to do now. But, don't feel hopeless at all. Even if you stay roughly the same, you will likely have some decent options.