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On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:46 pm
by Anonymous User
So, my g.p.a. isn't stellar and I haven't shared that with anyone in my class. There's a public service focused job fair happening on my campus in a couple weeks and I'm wondering if there's a chance I might have to explain my grades to employers (mostly gov't and non-profit but only a few have asked for grades). So, any advice on how to do this discretely without letting my grades slip to all my nosy classmates? Or do employers even question you much about grades in a situation like this?
I'm thinking of leaving my g.p.a./rank off my resume completely (below median) and I'm thinking most employers will focus on my PI experience which is pretty extensive. Obviously, the plan is to kill my exams and be in a better place next semester. Until then though, I'd rather not let people wrap their smug selves in superiority while talking shit (insert law school is high school reference here). Alright, thoughts/advice?
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:48 pm
by Anonymous User
Why would your classmates hear your explanation?
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:55 pm
by Anonymous User
OP here
Well, I guess I'm not sure exactly how it works, but I believe it will be a lot of open tables like most career fairs. Some of my classmates will definitely be at the fair (not sure if it's just for students at my school or is open to other students as well). Here's how I'd imagine it going:
Employer: "We're interested in your experience. What is your G.P.A./rank?"
Me (near a classmate who can hear the conversation): Errrrm................
I should be clear, there are interviews as well as general information people who weren't selected for interviews can come look at. Not sure how private these interviews will be, but I'm just totally unfamiliar with OCI events.
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:56 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
They won't do that.
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:59 pm
by TooOld4This
Well the easy way to avoid this is by putting your GPA on your resume. This is a standard information point. If you don't have it on, the assumption is that you have below a 3.0.
Also, the only reason your classmates would care what your GPA is is if you have been a complete jerk or have monopolized class discussions. Otherwise they are going to be focused on finding themselves a job and be tuning out other conversations.
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:00 pm
by Anonymous User
A. Nony Mouse wrote:They won't do that.
OP here
They won't ask me about grades? That would be a relief, but are you sure? Do they just normally leave grades off the table? I'd think the employers would be curious about my grades because most of them only had my resume when I applied (didn't have grades released yet).
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:04 pm
by Anonymous User
TooOld4This wrote:Well the easy way to avoid this is by putting your GPA on your resume. This is a standard information point. If you don't have it on, the assumption is that you have below a 3.0.
Also, the only reason your classmates would care what your GPA is is if you have been a complete jerk or have monopolized class discussions. Otherwise they are going to be focused on finding themselves a job and be tuning out other conversations.
OP here
Yeah, it's a little below that. So I should leave it off then? I thought leaving it off might raise questions. And I'd like to think I've been cool to everyone in my class, but my section is a bit over zealous in comparing grades at the moment. I'd just rather keep it from them until mine is a little higher.
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:06 pm
by shock259
Who cares? Your grades are your grades. Don't use them to gauge the relative worth of yourself as a human being.
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:06 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
They're not going to ask you about grades in the middle of a crowded room full of other people, no. (Unless they're really assholes, I guess.) Depending on the employer, they won't care about grades at all. (some PI employers, like PDs, generally don't care); if they haven't already asked, they're not likely to. But they're also not going to engage in a full-blown interview in the middle of a crowded room full of other people.
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:14 pm
by TooOld4This
Anonymous User wrote:TooOld4This wrote:Well the easy way to avoid this is by putting your GPA on your resume. This is a standard information point. If you don't have it on, the assumption is that you have below a 3.0.
Also, the only reason your classmates would care what your GPA is is if you have been a complete jerk or have monopolized class discussions. Otherwise they are going to be focused on finding themselves a job and be tuning out other conversations.
OP here
Yeah, it's a little below that. So I should leave it off then? I thought leaving it off might raise questions. And I'd like to think I've been cool to everyone in my class, but my section is a bit over zealous in comparing grades at the moment. I'd just rather keep it from them until mine is a little higher.
If you are close to the 3.0 mark, it is a tough call -- what is median? If you had a 2.94 where median is 3.0, thn I would put it on (with the median number). If you have a 2.76 and median is 3.4, then you might as well leave it off and hope that either the employer doesn't care about grades or, if they do, they will assume you are a clueless 1L and keep reading your resume and find something that they like.
I would work on owning your grades, though. Being ashamed of them will show in an interview. You need to be able to talk about them freely and show that you know how you've wound up here and that you are confident that your skills will grow and be of value to employers.
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:17 pm
by TooOld4This
A. Nony Mouse wrote:They're not going to ask you about grades in the middle of a crowded room full of other people, no. (Unless they're really assholes, I guess.) Depending on the employer, they won't care about grades at all. (some PI employers, like PDs, generally don't care); if they haven't already asked, they're not likely to. But they're also not going to engage in a full-blown interview in the middle of a crowded room full of other people.
I can see it happening without malice. If the person collecting resumes is jst absentmindedly looking it over quickly for completeness, it might be asked. Likewise, if GPA is necessary, they might ask. But, no, I would not expect a full blown public discussion.
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:27 pm
by Anonymous User
OP here:
TooOld4This wrote:A. Nony Mouse wrote:They're not going to ask you about grades in the middle of a crowded room full of other people, no. (Unless they're really assholes, I guess.) Depending on the employer, they won't care about grades at all. (some PI employers, like PDs, generally don't care); if they haven't already asked, they're not likely to. But they're also not going to engage in a full-blown interview in the middle of a crowded room full of other people.
I can see it happening without malice. If the person collecting resumes is jst absentmindedly looking it over quickly for completeness, it might be asked. Likewise, if GPA is necessary, they might ask. But, no, I would not expect a full blown public discussion.
This is what's going through my head too.
TooOld4This wrote:
If you are close to the 3.0 mark, it is a tough call -- what is median? If you had a 2.94 where median is 3.0, thn I would put it on (with the median number). If you have a 2.76 and median is 3.4, then you might as well leave it off and hope that either the employer doesn't care about grades or, if they do, they will assume you are a clueless 1L and keep reading your resume and find something that they like.
I would work on owning your grades, though. Being ashamed of them will show in an interview. You need to be able to talk about them freely and show that you know how you've wound up here and that you are confident that your skills will grow and be of value to employers.
My G.P.A. is about 0.4 below median. I totally agree I should find a way to comfortably talk about grades if they come up, but I'm trying to do it without discussing them. I thought about maybe bringing transcripts to pass to them and leave with my application or writing it down and passing it to the interviewer if asked. And if I have to say something verbally, maybe I could say, "We'll my grades aren't quite where I want them to be, but I've reflected on some of the things I did during my exams and I'm much more confident about what to do this semester."
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:31 pm
by ndirish2010
The better question is why the hell do you care if your classmates know your grades?
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:53 pm
by anonymcoffee
"They're not going to ask you about grades in the middle of a crowded room full of other people, no. (Unless they're really assholes, I guess.)"
Correction, every employer in the legal field is an asshole - I have a crappy median gpa and in an open room within earshot of everyone the employer shouted "guess you really messed up x class" or "wow you didn't like y class this much, what happened" - this happened more than once, at different fairs. I wouldn't worry about your classmates, I WOULD worry about your answers and addressing the gpa issue - I guarantee you, you will be asked about it.
ps: why are you still in law school, listen from a miserable, jobless, in debt 3l, drop out now.
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:25 pm
by MinEMorris
FWIW, half of the class has about the same grades as you. Another 25% aren't doing that much better than you. And the final 25% probably assume that you, along with everyone else in the class, are below them anyway. Honestly, I think you should be open about your grades-- it's a really good way to practice separating your own sense or your intelligence and worth from your perception of how other people evaluate you. I also think you'll come to the stunning realization that no one cares about how you did, they only care about how they did.
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:40 pm
by BullShitWithBravado
1. Leave your rank and GPA off the resume if you're below median.
2. Be prepared to answer the question: "Are your grades an accurate demonstration of your abilities?"
3. Try not to stress out if recruiters do ask you for your grades, just be honest and focus on interviewing well. You'd be surprised how much good interviewing can help to overcome low grades.
EDIT: Also remember that anyone who makes fun of other people because of their grades is a douchebag who probably has self-estem issues and an inferiority complex.
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:47 pm
by Richie Tenenbaum
shock259 wrote:Who cares? Your grades are your grades. Don't use them to gauge the relative worth of yourself as a human being.
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:10 pm
by Anonymous User
OP here:
BullShitWithBravado wrote:1. Leave your rank and GPA off the resume if you're below median.
2. Be prepared to answer the question: "Are your grades an accurate demonstration of your abilities?"
3. Try not to stress out if recruiters do ask you for your grades, just be honest and focus on interviewing well. You'd be surprised how much good interviewing can help to overcome low grades.
EDIT: Also remember that anyone who makes fun of other people because of their grades is a douchebag who probably has self-estem issues and an inferiority complex.
This is my plan for game day. And I definitely get number 3. The worrying about classmates learning what my grades are mostly stems from just circumventing needless drama. Too many of my classmates think grades undeniably demonstrate your ability as a lawyer. You know, they're 1L's who think they're hot shit now that they have their 1st semester grades back. And that the lines in lawyering ability have been drawn. I get that I'll bring my grades up and my self-esteem is solid, but I'd just rather not deal with the inevitable gossip that will ensue. Wouldn't help my mindset for improving this semester.
Thanks for the advice everyone. I've got it from here
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:28 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
anonymcoffee wrote:"They're not going to ask you about grades in the middle of a crowded room full of other people, no. (Unless they're really assholes, I guess.)"
Correction, every employer in the legal field is an asshole - I have a crappy median gpa and in an open room within earshot of everyone the employer shouted "guess you really messed up x class" or "wow you didn't like y class this much, what happened" - this happened more than once, at different fairs. I wouldn't worry about your classmates, I WOULD worry about your answers and addressing the gpa issue - I guarantee you, you will be asked about it.
ps: why are you still in law school, listen from a miserable, jobless, in debt 3l, drop out now.
Sorry about that! Maybe employers at the fairs I've been to are nicer?
.
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:33 am
by Myself
.
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:27 pm
by dood
shock259 wrote:Who cares? Your grades are your grades. Don't use them to gauge the relative worth of yourself as a human being.
problem is everyone uses them to gauge ur worth
Re: On Campus Interview: How to Keep Grades from Other Students?
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:37 am
by gahgahblacksheep
Good thing you don't go to Michigan.
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