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Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:54 am
by lawschoolfiasco
Outlook is simply detestable from a user experience perspective. I know firms use it because of the compatibility with Word and all the custom templates/programs built into Word. I still miss Gmail, its fast search, threaded messages (and relatedly not having to skip through the full prior message in each reply), and super easy tagging
So, anyone know which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:58 am
by exitoptions
I have never ever heard of a firm using google apps and gmail although I wish they did. Outlook is completely ridiculous, we're constantly searching for old e-mails and unless you follow a strict filing system it is nearly impossible to find them. Firms are incredibly conservative and it is nearly impossible to get them to switch to more efficient technology. THat makes sense, though, since efficiency is the enemy of the billable hour afterall.
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:05 am
by dingbat
exitoptions wrote:I have never ever heard of a firm using google apps and gmail although I wish they did. Outlook is completely ridiculous, we're constantly searching for old e-mails and unless you follow a strict filing system it is nearly impossible to find them. Firms are incredibly conservative and it is nearly impossible to get them to switch to more efficient technology. THat makes sense, though, since efficiency is the enemy of the billable hour afterall.
Having a good filing system is a habit you want to get into anyway. Nothing worse than dealing with someone and that person is unable to find an email, or spends significant time (while on the phone) searching for it.
Not only that, an email trail is an easily available CYA
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:10 am
by exitoptions
dingbat wrote:exitoptions wrote:I have never ever heard of a firm using google apps and gmail although I wish they did. Outlook is completely ridiculous, we're constantly searching for old e-mails and unless you follow a strict filing system it is nearly impossible to find them. Firms are incredibly conservative and it is nearly impossible to get them to switch to more efficient technology. THat makes sense, though, since efficiency is the enemy of the billable hour afterall.
Having a good filing system is a habit you want to get into anyway. Nothing worse than dealing with someone and that person is unable to find an email, or spends significant time (while on the phone) searching for it.
Not only that, an email trail is an easily available CYA
Yes, totally agree with that. But my practice group sends email like crazy and it would be much easier if outlook automatically sorted them the way Gmail does. It's clearly inferior technology and I'm not sure the "you should be filing them anyway" approach really makes up for that. Also, try filing all your emails on your bb or iphone while out of the office. Doesn't work too well.
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:17 am
by dingbat
exitoptions wrote:Yes, totally agree with that. But my practice group sends email like crazy and it would be much easier if outlook automatically sorted them the way Gmail does. It's clearly inferior technology and I'm not sure the "you should be filing them anyway" approach really makes up for that.
Suck it up, buttercup. learn to work with the tools of the trade, even if those tools are inferior (also, I'm not sure, but I believe using outlook is more secure?)
exitoptions wrote:Also, try filing all your emails on your bb or iphone while out of the office. Doesn't work too well.
That's why you should file them first thing in the morning when you get into the office. I've dealt with getting hundreds of emails a day and reading/responding while out of the office and still managed to keep my inbox reasonably small at all times and filed so well I could track stuff from 5 years earlier within (I'd like to say minutes, but it depends on what I was looking for). It's not hard, so long as you're disciplined (although, coming back from vacation can be a bitch)
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:30 am
by IAFG
I don't understand how lawyers can use gmail etc without violating client confidentiality.
And I strongly suspect schools using google apps are running afoul of FERPA, but DoE hasn't come out and said it.
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:34 am
by Lincoln
Google Apps? Outlook?
Try Lotus Notes
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:34 am
by exitoptions
dingbat wrote:exitoptions wrote:Yes, totally agree with that. But my practice group sends email like crazy and it would be much easier if outlook automatically sorted them the way Gmail does. It's clearly inferior technology and I'm not sure the "you should be filing them anyway" approach really makes up for that.
Suck it up, buttercup. learn to work with the tools of the trade, even if those tools are inferior (also, I'm not sure, but I believe using outlook is more secure?)
exitoptions wrote:Also, try filing all your emails on your bb or iphone while out of the office. Doesn't work too well.
That's why you should file them first thing in the morning when you get into the office. I've dealt with getting hundreds of emails a day and reading/responding while out of the office and still managed to keep my inbox reasonably small at all times and filed so well I could track stuff from 5 years earlier within (I'd like to say minutes, but it depends on what I was looking for). It's not hard, so long as you're disciplined (although, coming back from vacation can be a bitch)
Great, you must be the best lawyer ever. I just said that I use the filing system... congrats on your 5 year tracking system, you must be a better lawyer. Doesn't change the fact that Outlook is an inferior system and actually it is less secure considering how hackable the webmail version is (at least with google you have two-step verification).
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:36 am
by exitoptions
IAFG wrote:I don't understand how lawyers can use gmail etc without violating client confidentiality.
And I strongly suspect schools using google apps are running afoul of FERPA, but DoE hasn't come out and said it.
Google sells versions that are not based on ad-revenue and are therefore not searched by google, e.g. Georgetown undergrad uses a version of gmail on its mail servers. But yes, I agree standard gmail may violate confidentiality (although I know some lawyers use it).
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:54 am
by A. Nony Mouse
Lincoln wrote:Google Apps? Outlook?
Try Lotus Notes
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:58 am
by wiseowl
I always enjoy 0Ls and 1Ls lecturing biglawyers on management.
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:05 pm
by exitoptions
wiseowl wrote:I always enjoy 0Ls and 1Ls lecturing biglawyers on management.
I thought this was the forum for graduates?
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:07 pm
by IAFG
exitoptions wrote:IAFG wrote:I don't understand how lawyers can use gmail etc without violating client confidentiality.
And I strongly suspect schools using google apps are running afoul of FERPA, but DoE hasn't come out and said it.
Google sells versions that are not based on ad-revenue and are therefore not searched by google, e.g. Georgetown undergrad uses a version of gmail on its mail servers. But yes, I agree standard gmail may violate confidentiality (although I know some lawyers use it).
Yeah... I've read the education version TOS when I was interning for a school district and it seemed pretty illegal for schools to use to me.
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:08 pm
by IAFG
wiseowl wrote:I always enjoy 0Ls and 1Ls lecturing biglawyers on management.
r u kidding biglawyers should probably take management advice exclusively from non-lawyers.
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:09 pm
by exitoptions
IAFG wrote:exitoptions wrote:IAFG wrote:I don't understand how lawyers can use gmail etc without violating client confidentiality.
And I strongly suspect schools using google apps are running afoul of FERPA, but DoE hasn't come out and said it.
Google sells versions that are not based on ad-revenue and are therefore not searched by google, e.g. Georgetown undergrad uses a version of gmail on its mail servers. But yes, I agree standard gmail may violate confidentiality (although I know some lawyers use it).
Yeah... I've read the education version TOS when I was interning for a school district and it seemed pretty illegal for schools to use to me.
What makes it illegal (honest question, I've never review to TOS nor do I know much about regs for schools)?
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:13 pm
by IAFG
exitoptions wrote:IAFG wrote:exitoptions wrote:IAFG wrote:I don't understand how lawyers can use gmail etc without violating client confidentiality.
And I strongly suspect schools using google apps are running afoul of FERPA, but DoE hasn't come out and said it.
Google sells versions that are not based on ad-revenue and are therefore not searched by google, e.g. Georgetown undergrad uses a version of gmail on its mail servers. But yes, I agree standard gmail may violate confidentiality (although I know some lawyers use it).
Yeah... I've read the education version TOS when I was interning for a school district and it seemed pretty illegal for schools to use to me.
What makes it illegal (honest question, I've never review to TOS nor do I know much about regs for schools)?
you give google as a third party access to private information about students, which is fine, you can share info with contractors, but they make no promise to keep it to themselves or to not use it for whatever they want or give their own contractors access to it.
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:34 pm
by englawyer
IAFG wrote:I don't understand how lawyers can use gmail etc without violating client confidentiality.
Use of Gmail by attorneys is accepted by the NY State Bar Association:
http://www.legalethics.com/?p=452
Given that, if one can get permission/blessing from the law firm, you could just setup Outlook to forward to gmail.
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:37 pm
by dingbat
englawyer wrote:IAFG wrote:I don't understand how lawyers can use gmail etc without violating client confidentiality.
Use of Gmail by attorneys is accepted by the NY State Bar Association:
http://www.legalethics.com/?p=452
Given that, if one can get permission/blessing from the law firm, you could just setup Outlook to forward to gmail.
As an encore, maybe you could get Republicans to agree to tax increases and gun restrictions while getting Democrats to agree to massive cuts to medicare and social security?
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:39 pm
by IAFG
englawyer wrote:IAFG wrote:I don't understand how lawyers can use gmail etc without violating client confidentiality.
Use of Gmail by attorneys is accepted by the NY State Bar Association:
http://www.legalethics.com/?p=452
Given that, if one can get permission/blessing from the law firm, you could just setup Outlook to forward to gmail.
thanks for sharing!
looks like my state hasn't done the same thing, so i'm stuck with outlook
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:44 pm
by exitoptions
This link has a pretty good rundown on the states. I doubt most large firms will allow you to forward your work e-mail but I could see small firms moving toward this to save on the server costs.
http://www.netforlawyers.com/content/le ... uting-0037
.
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:55 pm
by Myself
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Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:42 pm
by kryptix
I'm as big a fan of gmail for personal mail as you can find, but that said, if your an outlook power user you can automatically filter and file a lot of your mail and an indexed search through outlook/exchange is just as fast as a gmail search so its more a matter of not knowing how to use your tools than anything...
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:52 pm
by 09042014
IAFG wrote:I don't understand how lawyers can use gmail etc without violating client confidentiality.
And I strongly suspect schools using google apps are running afoul of FERPA, but DoE hasn't come out and said it.
I assume that google doesn't have access to paid gmail corporate accounts. Making it safer than sending a file via Fed Ex.
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:55 pm
by 09042014
Outlook >> gmail for professional emails. I agree message threading is nice, but it's not worth all the other BS gmail doesn't do.
Re: Which biglaw firms, if any, use Google Apps?
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:00 pm
by IAFG
Desert Fox wrote:IAFG wrote:I don't understand how lawyers can use gmail etc without violating client confidentiality.
And I strongly suspect schools using google apps are running afoul of FERPA, but DoE hasn't come out and said it.
I assume that google doesn't have access to paid gmail corporate accounts. Making it safer than sending a file via Fed Ex.
I don't know why you assume that