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I would like to discuss the exit options coming from Skadden vs another V50. Are they really that much better? Anyone with experience or some baseless conjecture want to comment?

I'm sorry. I just have to be the person to say this. Why in heck would you be looking at lateralling from Skadden? Where the heck would you GO? Cravath?
(Actually suspects this is a flame but is bored and willing to play along for a short period of time*.)

*a very SHORT period of time

nygrrrl wrote:I'm sorry. I just have to be the person to say this. Why in heck would you be looking at lateralling from Skadden? Where the heck would you GO? Cravath?
(Actually suspects this is a flame but is bored and willing to play along for a short period of time*.)

*a very SHORT period of time

What? Is this a weird flame in which you accuse another of flaming? There's a whole host of places the poster may want to exit to, either another firm after he gets up or outed, or another firm that's better in the practice niche the poster develops, or most likely, in house somewhere.. You think everyone at skadden works there for their whole career?

splitmuch wrote:

nygrrrl wrote:I'm sorry. I just have to be the person to say this. Why in heck would you be looking at lateralling from Skadden? Where the heck would you GO? Cravath?
(Actually suspects this is a flame but is bored and willing to play along for a short period of time*.)

*a very SHORT period of time

What? Is this a weird flame in which you accuse another of flaming?

Dude. You think I'M a flame?

nygrrrl wrote:I'm sorry. I just have to be the person to say this. Why in heck would you be looking at lateralling from Skadden? Where the heck would you GO? Cravath?
(Actually suspects this is a flame but is bored and willing to play along for a short period of time*.)

*a very SHORT period of time

Coherent much? First, people leave Skadden for other firms. Second, Cravath doesn't lateral. Third, what?

Anonymous User wrote:

nygrrrl wrote:I'm sorry. I just have to be the person to say this. Why in heck would you be looking at lateralling from Skadden? Where the heck would you GO? Cravath?
(Actually suspects this is a flame but is bored and willing to play along for a short period of time*.)

*a very SHORT period of time

Coherent much? First, people leave Skadden for other firms. Second, Cravath doesn't lateral. Third, what?

OK, I will let this roll. Let me ask you, if you were to get a Skadden offer and take said offer, where would you be looking to go, down the line?

nygrrrl wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

nygrrrl wrote:I'm sorry. I just have to be the person to say this. Why in heck would you be looking at lateralling from Skadden? Where the heck would you GO? Cravath?
(Actually suspects this is a flame but is bored and willing to play along for a short period of time*.)

*a very SHORT period of time

Coherent much? First, people leave Skadden for other firms. Second, Cravath doesn't lateral. Third, what?

OK, I will let this roll. Let me ask you, if you were to get a Skadden offer and take said offer, where would you be looking to go, down the line?

You have way too many posts for this, must be flame.

splitmuch wrote: You have way too many posts for this, must be flame.

Dude, wut ? I'll ask again: are you accusing ME of being a flame?
If so, waaaaaaaaaaaay off the mark.
I'm seriously interested in where OP would like to go from Skadden - assuming that OP actually has an offer from Skadden.

EDIT: OP? If you are seriously considering this and this is a serious question, then I would say that your exit options from Skadden would be great. No sarcasm, no joking. It's a coup to land a gig there and if you've done so, I'd take it and be thrilled. Sorry if I was too snarky - it's just that to me? Skadden is a fantastic firm and it's hard to imagine anyone having trouble lateralling out of there. If you've got this dude? congrats and well done. Take it!

Seriously? As i said above:
There's a whole host of places the poster may want to exit to, either another firm after he gets up or outed, or another firm that's better in the practice niche the poster develops, or most likely, in house somewhere.. You think everyone at skadden works there for their whole career?

I don't understand what is so confusing about this question

Everyone concedes that biglaw is not forever. Most people leave for in house/smaller firms/less demanding firms/non-law jobs.

This poster is asking if he will have significantly better options when it comes time to leave as a Skadden associate vs an associate at another firm.

crit_racer wrote:I don't understand what is so confusing about this question

Everyone concedes that biglaw is not forever. Most people leave for in house/smaller firms/less demanding firms/non-law jobs.

This poster is asking if he will have significantly better options when it comes time to leave as a Skadden associate vs an associate at another firm.

This.

OK OP, see my edit above. If you're serious, best of luck to you. Do a bit of research and I think you'll find that Skadden is a terrific choice no matter what your long-term plans may be.
Bowing out.

nygrrrl wrote:

splitmuch wrote: You have way too many posts for this, must be flame.

Dude, wut ? I'll ask again: are you accusing ME of being a flame?
If so, waaaaaaaaaaaay off the mark.
I'm seriously interested in where OP would like to go from Skadden - assuming that OP actually has an offer from Skadden.

What is confusing about OP's post? Attrition rates from all firms are huge. Anyone who starts at a firm should be thinking about exit options.

OP, exit options totally depend on the work you do at the firm and where you want to land on the other side. There are some non-firm jobs that care primarily about pedigree, but most want someone who can do the work. If you spend 3 years at Skadden up to your eyes in scut work under 3 layers of associates bossing you around, you aren't going to have as strong of exit options at another firm where you have had client contact, substantive experience, and partners who can speak for your work. That isn't to say what your choice will be. Just don't think your firm name will necessarily carry the day.

meh. edited. Disregard.

Edit: OP, it depends a lot on practice area. If you start with Skadden's M&A group, for example, you will be a very hot commodity at many other firms when you want to leave. On top of that, few V50 firms have M&A groups that approach Skadden's caliber, so it may be an even bigger gap.

But there are V50 firms with specialties/practice area that are as good or better than some of Skadden's, so it isn't necessarily cut and dry. More info would help, but for many practice areas at Skadden vs. many V50 firms you probably would see better exit options from Skadden.

nygrrrl wrote:OK OP, see my edit above. If you're serious, best of luck to you. Do a bit of research and I think you'll find that Skadden is a terrific choice no matter what your long-term plans may be.
Bowing out.

I think the confusion ITT comes from the fact that a lot of people burn out, get pushed out, or don't feel like they fit perfectly with the first biglaw firm that they go to. Many of them go on to other biglaw firms (in the same or a different region). Often the first firm either isn't perfect from the associate's point of view or partnership prospects seem remote/impossible and so they will change to a new firm, often on the partnership track at the new place. This tends not to be anybody's plan A, but it's quite common and worth planning for when selecting a job.

It isn't about trading up, it isn't about expecting to find a better firm than Skadden - it's about the fact that those kinds of biglaw firms can see 20%+ associate turnover every year. OP is wondering if starting at Skadden will be a better setup than starting at a V50 in the event he/she either needs or wants to change jobs.

An obvious example from my interviewing was an awful lot of corporate partners in DC began their careers at NYC biglaw firms. But if you search associate bios you'll find most law firms have many midlevels from other law firms. In fact, many people who start at "prestigious biglaw firms" start getting head hunting phone calls from people whose job it is to find and place associates in other law firms.

So OP's question is very valid, and people have different views on this (my own research suggests that starting at a firm like Skadden will, by and large, give better exit options to other firms - but that it is highly practice area dependent, both as to how well regarded Skadden will be and what firms will be looking). To people who have thought about these things a lot, OP's question seems very reasonable (and is often discussed) so a poster - and a mod at that - not only not understanding but going so far as to basically call flame looks very shocking and jarring. It's clearly just a misunderstanding, but I'm pretty sure that's why the thread got so far off the rails so quickly.

Lawquacious wrote:lol at posters not being able to shut up about NYGirl's posts... Ye who are so apparently knowledged in the ways of exit options why don't you say something useful instead of just ripping on her. Even if it is a legit inquiry you have contributed nothing to it, and bottom line is that OP shouldn't be worried about exit options from Skadden, as NYGirl pointed out.

Skadden's exit options do not automatically trump every other firm. OP needs to look at what and where s/he wants to do. Believe it or not, legal employers do not just crack open vault to choose candidates. A "lower ranked" firm with a top practice in an area can produce better exit options in that area than a top vault firm that doesn't really focus on that area. Not to mention, life as an associate can be better as well.

OMG [fill in Vault firm] is a really short-sighted way to choose an employer.

Here's an example of a partner at a firm who demonstrates the plinko game very well: Spent time at Skadden, OMM, in goverment, and an LA firm I've never heard of, is now a partner at Pillsbury.

I found him by going to a random V50's website and searching their attorney bios for the phrase "Skadden"

http://www.pillsburylaw.com/index.cfm?p ... emid=21015

thesealocust wrote: OP's question seems very reasonable (and is often discussed) so a poster - and a mod at that - not only not understanding but going so far as to basically call flame looks very shocking and jarring. It's clearly just a misunderstanding, but I'm pretty sure that's why the thread got so far off the rails so quickly.

Well Locust, I'm sorry you found it "shocking and jarring" but I think if you'd read the whole thread you'd have seen that I came back and corrected myself, in case I was mistaken:

nygrrrl wrote:OK OP, see my edit above. If you're serious, best of luck to you. Do a bit of research and I think you'll find that Skadden is a terrific choice no matter what your long-term plans may be.
Bowing out.

If you really believe that a V5 doesn't offer great exit options well then, yes: we aren't going to see eye to eye. OP, if you've got any questions about this PM me - clearly, this isn't talk for the boards.

nygrrrl wrote:

thesealocust wrote: OP's question seems very reasonable (and is often discussed) so a poster - and a mod at that - not only not understanding but going so far as to basically call flame looks very shocking and jarring. It's clearly just a misunderstanding, but I'm pretty sure that's why the thread got so far off the rails so quickly.

Well Locust, I'm sorry you found it "shocking and jarring" but I think if you'd read the whole thread you'd have seen that I came back and corrected myself, in case I was mistaken:

nygrrrl wrote:OK OP, see my edit above. If you're serious, best of luck to you. Do a bit of research and I think you'll find that Skadden is a terrific choice no matter what your long-term plans may be.
Bowing out.

If you really believe that a V5 doesn't offer great exit options well then, yes: we aren't going to see eye to eye. OP, if you've got any questions about this PM me - clearly, this isn't talk for the boards.

Crikey! If you stay real still, we can observe a mod totally losing it on a completely normal question. Really a rare treat to see it in the wild.

kwais wrote:Crikey! If you stay real still, we can observe a mod totally losing it on a completely normal question. Really a rare treat to see it in the wild.

Dude, I've lost nothing. I've expressed my opinion that the exit options from a V5 cannot be beat. If there are others who disagree, so be it. That's the beauty of the boards - if we all agreed all the time, it would be boring as shit. (Extra points for "crikey." Love that one.)

The question isn't if Skadden has great exit option, but whether Skadden's options are that much better than another V50ish firm.

thelawyler wrote:The question isn't if Skadden has great exit option, but whether Skadden's options are that much better than another V50ish firm.

Indeed. My opinion? They are. That said, I am in the NYC market and my opinion may influenced because of it. I am eager to hear why others disagree/what others see as firms with better exit options. (Also, perhaps OP could clarify - we are talking about NYC, yes?)

More specifically, the real question in OP's mind is probably whether the exit options are better enough at Skadden for him/her to take an offer there instead of an offer at a V50 where he/she probably enjoyed the people more, believe to be less intense in terms of hours or stress, has a lower associate:partner ratio, or some combination of the above. Obviously Skadden's name carries more weight than say a Milbank or a Fried Frank in terms of exit options, but is that effect enough to be worth choosing it over a firm you otherwise prefer?

aces wrote:More specifically, the real question in OP's mind is probably whether the exit options are better enough at Skadden for him/her to take an offer there instead of an offer at a V50 where he/she probably enjoyed the people more, believe to be less intense in terms of hours or stress, has a lower associate:partner ratio, or some combination of the above. Obviously Skadden's name carries more weight than say a Milbank or a Fried Frank in terms of exit options, but is that effect enough to be worth choosing it over a firm you otherwise prefer?

Yep. And also, if OP is already thinking about exit strategies before s/he has done an SA (or accepted an offer - OP, can you clarify?), then the next question would be where does OP want to be in 5 - 10 years and what firm will best help her/him get there. OP! We need more info, here!

Reading this thread made me feel like I was watching a really awkward Steve Carell scene from the Office -- skin was straight crawling