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I have offers from multiple firms in a small-secondary market. The question is how do I ask them about offer rates? The question seems too abrasive to ask upfront. Do I raise this as part of a series of questions? Do I ask it over email? Help...

Anonymous User wrote:I have offers from multiple firms in a small-secondary market. The question is how do I ask them about offer rates? The question seems too abrasive to ask upfront. Do I raise this as part of a series of questions? Do I ask it over email? Help...

Just ask. It's a fair question.

Ask any way you would like. This is an important factor in your evaluation, and firms like candidates who make well-informed decisions. I asked this question during both screeners and callbacks, and received multiple offers. If it's a larger firm, this information is likely available on NALP FYI.

Anonymous User wrote:Ask any way you would like. This is an important factor in your evaluation, and firms like candidates who make well-informed decisions. I asked this question during both screeners and callbacks, and received multiple offers. If it's a larger firm, this information is likely available on NALP FYI.

Even if there is a NALP form, I'd still ask someone on the hiring committee directly because A) their information is more recent and B) if the offer rate wasn't 100%, you can ask why candidates were no-offered. If someone on the committee can't communicate a satisfactory explanation for why they no offered someone, that's a big red flag.

OP, I would just ask. I was in a similar situation last year with a midlaw firm in one of KC/Austin/Nashville.

My firm made me extremely nervous. When I had my CB, they still hadn't made decisions about that year's summers. I asked about offer rates during the CB I visited later on that Fall after I got the offer and asked the hiring partner what happened with the previous year's summers. He responded that X and Y were coming back the following year. I then asked him "what about the other 2?" I could tell he didn't feel like talking about it, but I really wanted to know/was concerned that the decisions had gone out so late to begin with. He said they didn't get offers due to fit and work-product concerns. And that was it. I spent the next year or so wondering (a) if he was telling the complete truth and (b) if he held that question against me. I suppose he didn't mind and was telling the truth, because all 4 of us got offers last week, and it seems it's the firm's normal MO to give out decisions in October.

That's just one anecdote, take it for what it's worth. But trust me, I understand the difficulty when you're dealing with smaller firms with smaller classes. Good luck!


ETA: I would also echo the post above about asking despite availability of NALP forms. My firm had an NALP form up from like 3 years ago, and its salary wasn't current either (though obviously don't ask about that).

Definitely just ask. If they take it badly, it's because it's a sore point for them. One firm told me, "oh really good, 80% or better." Ick.

rad lulz wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I have offers from multiple firms in a small-secondary market. The question is how do I ask them about offer rates? The question seems too abrasive to ask upfront. Do I raise this as part of a series of questions? Do I ask it over email? Help...

Just ask. It's a fair question.

This, but keep in mind that they may lie to you about the reason past SAs got no-offered. Keep in mind it's easier for a firm to say the SA didn't fit than to admit they couldn't afford it.

Anonymous User wrote:

rad lulz wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I have offers from multiple firms in a small-secondary market. The question is how do I ask them about offer rates? The question seems too abrasive to ask upfront. Do I raise this as part of a series of questions? Do I ask it over email? Help...

Just ask. It's a fair question.

This, but keep in mind that they may lie to you about the reason past SAs got no-offered. Keep in mind it's easier for a firm to say the SA didn't fit than to admit they couldn't afford it.

And if you are an aspie TLSer "fit" isn't exactly something you should be confident you'd overcome.

Anonymous User wrote:

rad lulz wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I have offers from multiple firms in a small-secondary market. The question is how do I ask them about offer rates? The question seems too abrasive to ask upfront. Do I raise this as part of a series of questions? Do I ask it over email? Help...

Just ask. It's a fair question.

This, but keep in mind that they may lie to you about the reason past SAs got no-offered. Keep in mind it's easier for a firm to say the SA didn't fit than to admit they couldn't afford it.

True, though I feel like if you're summering with a firm <300 lawyers ITE you need to account for this possibility regardless. Not only that, but it seems like 'fit' tends to be a lot more important at smaller firms (especially the ones where almost everyone tends to make partner), so it's more likely that a seemingly bullshit fit excuse has some legs.



I will say this. One of my good friends was at a small office of a biglaw firm that claimed they no-offered someone due to fit reasons. I initially called bullshit on this until I found this person's linkedin.

I shit you not, he had his UG, master's, and lawl school GPAs on there, with three digits after the decimal point, in addition to a narcissistic-sounding spiel on the characteristics he has that would "make [him] an exceptional associate." There was even worse stuff on there, but I won't describe it so as not to out this person. My jaw dropped.

los blancos wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

rad lulz wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I have offers from multiple firms in a small-secondary market. The question is how do I ask them about offer rates? The question seems too abrasive to ask upfront. Do I raise this as part of a series of questions? Do I ask it over email? Help...

Just ask. It's a fair question.

This, but keep in mind that they may lie to you about the reason past SAs got no-offered. Keep in mind it's easier for a firm to say the SA didn't fit than to admit they couldn't afford it.

True, though I feel like if you're summering with a firm <300 lawyers ITE you need to account for this possibility regardless. Not only that, but it seems like 'fit' tends to be a lot more important at smaller firms (especially the ones where almost everyone tends to make partner), so it's more likely that a seemingly bullshit fit excuse has some legs.



I will say this. One of my good friends was at a small office of a biglaw firm that claimed they no-offered someone due to fit reasons. I initially called bullshit on this until I found this person's linkedin.

I shit you not, he had his UG, master's, and lawl school GPAs on there, with three digits after the decimal point, in addition to a narcissistic-sounding spiel on the characteristics he has that would "make [him] an exceptional associate." There was even worse stuff on there, but I won't describe it so as not to out this person. My jaw dropped.

Yeah. I came across the linked in of a known TLSer at my school. He's got GPAs and a mission statement on there. A fucking mission statement. Baffling to me that people like this get as far as they do without someone ego checking them.