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Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:51 am
by 20121109
I'm taking a class with a corporate partner at one of White & Case's international offices, and after a brief introduction he told me that White & Case are making employment cutbacks. The [pertinent part of the] conversation went like this:
Gaia: Well, I worked for [firm] last summer. I interviewed with White & Case but they did not give me a callback!
W&C Partner: I'm not entirely sure that was any reflection on you. We're definitely making cutbacks this year so we didn't hire as much as usual....
Take this FWIW. But I've also heard from several sources that they've made first-year stealth layoffs recently. I don't mean to pontificate on the financial stability of White & Case and I'm not hinting at another Dewey, but please just be aware. When there's smoke - especially emanating from a partner's mouth - there is fire.
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:02 am
by Anonymous User
Heard the same about stealth layoffs from the grapevine.
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:58 am
by aces
I hope all these grapevines about first-year stealth layoffs don't all derive from that one anonymous post on this forum. Yes, the poster and her story were very compelling, and many rumors have been started with less cause, but it could have also been an elaborate flame. I am not associated with White & Case in any way, and I admit hearing many of the same things made me pause, but we have to at least strongly consider where the information came from, right?
Also, two things re: the partner statement:
(1) Seems like most firms either cut back or held their summer classes steady this year.
(2) It may have just been the partner trying to be nice.
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:19 am
by RPK34
1. He could me nice
2. Even if not, he could be talking over a longer time spam. I.e. in the last 4 years, they've tried to cut back on class sizes. This is obviously true of every firm
3. It seems many firms are making cutbacks this year.
4. This could be nothing to do with the NYC office. Having so many offices, it could mean they're cutting back on some international offices that aren't bringing in revenue.
I wouldn't work at W&C unless it was my only offer. The hours suck, the people seem horrible to work for (didn't like a single of the partners I met there), and it just seemed like a bad environment to be in. That said, you can't read into one small off the hand comment. It's entirely devoid of content and really doesn't say anything without more context
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:17 am
by Anonymous User
2nd poster here. My sources are a W&C midlevel associate + a friend at my school who heard similarly - take it with a grain of salt.
@aces Can you link me to the anonymous post you referred to?
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:32 am
by 20121109
I heard about stealth layoffs in the NYC office from at least three different sources. Also, the partner could have been trying to spare my feelings, but I was blessed to work at a v10 this past summer so I wasn't exactly upset when I said that I didn't get a callback. Besides, I'm just paying it forward. To be honest, when I hear so many negative things about one firm from different sources, including a partner, it gives me pause.
Anyway, I wish all those who decided upon White & Case the best of luck
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:38 am
by 84651846190
Work was drying up at some satellite offices of White and Case starting over two years ago. I can't imagine how bad it's gotten if it's remained the same since then.
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:03 am
by fatduck
GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:I heard about stealth layoffs in the NYC office from at least three different sources. Also, the partner could have been trying to spare my feelings, but I was blessed to work at a v10 this past summer so I wasn't exactly upset when I said that I didn't get a callback. Besides, I'm just paying it forward. To be honest, when I hear so many negative things about one firm from different sources, including a partner, it gives me pause.
Anyway, I wish all those who decided upon White & Case the best of luck
you got yield protected, obviously
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:15 am
by Anonymous User
I'm curious as to what their yeild will be. They seem to be a lot more selective this year. Wondering if it will backfire
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:46 am
by IAFG
Anonymous User wrote:I'm curious as to what their yeild will be. They seem to be a lot more selective this year. Wondering if it will backfire
I feel like this comment is coming from a place of confusion. If they "seem selective," that's probably more evidence that they're intentionally trimming their class size.
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:25 am
by rad lulz
fatduck wrote:GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:I heard about stealth layoffs in the NYC office from at least three different sources. Also, the partner could have been trying to spare my feelings, but I was blessed to work at a v10 this past summer so I wasn't exactly upset when I said that I didn't get a callback. Besides, I'm just paying it forward. To be honest, when I hear so many negative things about one firm from different sources, including a partner, it gives me pause.
Anyway, I wish all those who decided upon White & Case the best of luck
you got yield protected, obviously
The cream doesn't go to White and Case.
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:29 am
by Anonymous User
IAFG wrote:Anonymous User wrote:I'm curious as to what their yeild will be. They seem to be a lot more selective this year. Wondering if it will backfire
I feel like this comment is coming from a place of confusion. If they "seem selective," that's probably more evidence that they're intentionally trimming their class size.
Anon from above. The offers that I know of are top 10% and on law review at t14s. It seems like those students would also have offers from higher ranked Vault firms. With rumored trouble there I would assume those students would go to the higher ranked firms. Leaving them with a smaller than expected class. I am sure they factor this all in. But traditionally W&C went deeper into the T14.
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:32 am
by fatduck
rad lulz wrote:fatduck wrote:GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:I heard about stealth layoffs in the NYC office from at least three different sources. Also, the partner could have been trying to spare my feelings, but I was blessed to work at a v10 this past summer so I wasn't exactly upset when I said that I didn't get a callback. Besides, I'm just paying it forward. To be honest, when I hear so many negative things about one firm from different sources, including a partner, it gives me pause.
Anyway, I wish all those who decided upon White & Case the best of luck
you got yield protected, obviously
The cream doesn't go to White and Case.
no need to bring race into this
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:33 am
by SchopenhauerFTW
White & Case: not even once.
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:34 am
by JamMasterJ
Anonymous User wrote:
@aces Can you link me to the anonymous post you referred to?
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:46 pm
by aces
Mods locked the topic and most of the relevant posts were scrubbed. I don't particularly want to find it again. Needless to say, I think it may be the root of a significant proportion of the White & Case rumors specifically about first-year layoffs.
Admittedly, White & Case did lay off a bunch of attorneys during the recession and there are certainly a lot of negative rumors about it generally. It's still a well-ranked and well-regarded firm, however, and there's no reason that vague rumors should push you away from it if it's the best firm that fits your practice area preferences or you really liked the people you met there.
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:09 pm
by IAFG
aces wrote:Mods locked the topic and most of the relevant posts were scrubbed. I don't particularly want to find it again. Needless to say, I think it may be the root of a significant proportion of the White & Case rumors specifically about first-year layoffs.
Admittedly, White & Case did lay off a bunch of attorneys during the recession and there are certainly a lot of negative rumors about it generally. It's still a well-ranked and well-regarded firm, however, and there's no reason that vague rumors should push you away from it if it's the best firm that fits your practice area preferences or you really liked the people you met there.
I have no idea why you assume that the rumor is based on that thread when multiple people in this one are citing IRL sources.
Oh wait, I do have some idea; just accepted a W&C offer?
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:21 pm
by de5igual
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:26 pm
by slider
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Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:28 pm
by rad lulz
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:33 pm
by aces
IAFG wrote:aces wrote:Mods locked the topic and most of the relevant posts were scrubbed. I don't particularly want to find it again. Needless to say, I think it may be the root of a significant proportion of the White & Case rumors specifically about first-year layoffs.
Admittedly, White & Case did lay off a bunch of attorneys during the recession and there are certainly a lot of negative rumors about it generally. It's still a well-ranked and well-regarded firm, however, and there's no reason that vague rumors should push you away from it if it's the best firm that fits your practice area preferences or you really liked the people you met there.
I have no idea why you assume that the rumor is based on that thread when multiple people in this one are citing IRL sources.
Oh wait, I do have some idea; just accepted a W&C offer?
Nah. In fact, after reading that thread and hearing other rumors, I lowered White & Case on my bidlist (and did not receive a screener with them), which may or may not have been the right thing to do at the time (ETA: didn't mean to imply that I struck out; received offers from great firms).
I suppose you're right that I could have the causality reversed here, but given the amount of play that thread got, you have to admit it's very possible that all the IRL sources just read the thread or heard rumors from others who had read the thread.
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:47 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:I'm curious as to what their yeild will be. They seem to be a lot more selective this year. Wondering if it will backfire
I know someone who just got offered there like end of last week whose CB was a long time ago. It looked like he was going to strike out for several weeks. Take that FWIW
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:52 pm
by keg411
GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:I heard about stealth layoffs in the NYC office from at least three different sources. Also, the partner could have been trying to spare my feelings,
but I was blessed to work at a v10 this past summer so I wasn't exactly upset when I said that I didn't get a callback. Besides, I'm just paying it forward. To be honest, when I hear so many negative things about one firm from different sources, including a partner, it gives me pause.
Anyway, I wish all those who decided upon White & Case the best of luck
Love how the entire thread was basically set up as a bizarre humblebrag.
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:57 pm
by IAFG
keg411 wrote:GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:I heard about stealth layoffs in the NYC office from at least three different sources. Also, the partner could have been trying to spare my feelings,
but I was blessed to work at a v10 this past summer so I wasn't exactly upset when I said that I didn't get a callback. Besides, I'm just paying it forward. To be honest, when I hear so many negative things about one firm from different sources, including a partner, it gives me pause.
Anyway, I wish all those who decided upon White & Case the best of luck
Love how the entire thread was basically set up as a bizarre humblebrag.
I did rather wonder why someone with a V10 offer is expressing their butthurt about missing W&C to one of their partners. And then wants to analyze a statement that was one of a small handful of polite things a partner could say to someone under the circumstances.
Re: Cutbacks at White & Case
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:04 pm
by JusticeHarlan
aces wrote:I suppose you're right that I could have the causality reversed here, but given the amount of play that thread got, you have to admit it's very possible that all the IRL sources just read the thread or heard rumors from others who had read the thread.
Yeah, I'm sure the partner mentioned in the OP got his info from a TLS thread. Good call.
aces wrote:(ETA: didn't mean to imply that I struck out; received offers from great firms).
Good thing you edited this, people might have gotten the wrong impression! I can't imagine the calamity that would have caused had you not put that in.
