Advice for a good summer. Forum

[wcarlwilson]

Seeking advice from 2012 SAs and current Associates on how to have a successful summer.

From 2012 SAs:

In general, knowing what you know now, what would have done during the 2L year to prep for your SA gigs?

For those that got offered, what do you think you did that got you an offer over those that did not?

Fort those what did not get offered (I'm sorry), what would have done different?

From current Associates:

What do you think? What do SAs do that get them offers or no offers?

[Old Gregg]

All your answers are here:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/search.php

[traehekat]

There isn't really much you can do to "prep" for the summer. You just need to do good work and be reliable, enthusiastic, and sociable. Maybe brush up on your Westlaw or Lexis research skills.

[EvilClinton]

2012 SA HERE

Here is my short list of advice:.

1. Never blow a deadline.

2. Go to every social event.

3. Proof read all your work 2 to 3 times and have others check it (including your secretary).

4. Have fun but don't be the fun. Never get too drunk or over share during social events.

5. Don't ever talk about a desire to leave big law (exit options, etc) or having a desire to do 100% pi work. Taking an interest in pro bono is fine but don't say you would like to work for a P/I organization fulltime "someday".

6. Relax and have fun.

[ph14]

1. Never blow a deadline.
2. Make sure to communicate when necessary. Keep your supervisors in the loop as to your progress. Talk to your supervisors EARLY if you spot a problem. That will save both of you a huge headache.
3. Some of the SA research assignments, at least on the litigation side, are the questions that might not have an answer really. They're more "we've had this question around for a while" or "we don't think there is an answer but in the spirit of leaving no stone unturned." Don't be afraid to come back empty handed, but tell your supervisor in email/person what steps you took to try and find the answer.
4. Don't be inappropriate in email, and be more formal than you think when emailing assignments. Corollary, think before you put something in writing/in an email.
5. Respect the hierarchy of the firm.
6. Don't trust the Westlaw representatives when you call them. If you use them, absolutely double check. Oftentimes, they're wrong or are missing something.
7. Always right down essential information in the initial meeting (this means always have a pad). Due date, client billing information, medium the assignment should be turned in (email, oral report, formal memo, etc.).
8. Don't be afraid to skip social events. It's okay to have a life outside the firm or just want to relax. You won't get no offered for that.
9. Quality > quantity. Much, much better to do 5 fantastic assignments than 10 okay assignments.
10. Ask questions.

[EvilClinton]

Just thought of a couple more:

1. Always write down everything an assigning partner or associate tells you.

2. In regard to #1, always carry around a legal pad. It never fails that you will see your partner in the hall or in a place you are not expecting and he will have a a couple more "thoughts" on your assignment or work. At first I was always trying to remember these interactions or find a pen or paper on the spot. That leads to problems. Later in the summer I decided to try and take a legal pad with me when I was in the office (not to lunch). It saved me more than a couple times. Plus I think it made me seem busy when I was walking around the office to take a break or stretch my legs.

[flipadelphia]

2012 SA HERE

Here is my short list of advice:.

1. Never blow a deadline.

2. Go to every social event.

3. Proof read all your work 2 to 3 times and have others check it (including your secretary).

4. Have fun but don't be the fun. Never get too drunk or over share during social events.

5. Don't ever talk about a desire to leave big law (exit options, etc) or having a desire to do 100% pi work. Taking an interest in pro bono is fine but don't say you would like to work for a P/I organization fulltime "someday".

6. Relax and have fun.

1. If you think you might be having a problem with a deadline, communicate with your supervisor early. It maybe be no problem; it may be a hard deadline. When you have a lot of projects up in the air, you have to figure out how to prioritize.

2. If you are the summer that draws the short straw and ends up on a hard-core project when the rest of the class is working on usual summer work, don't worry about missing an event. Sucking it up and being a team player > showing up for an hour at mini-golf.

3. Valid. Although observe how other young associates work with admins (i.e. if they don't send them documents for proofing, you probably shouldn't either). In my experience, most love to help out and meet the summers (and somehow, no matter what you did before law school, you will jam the copier. It's like fate or magic or something). Just don't drop off docs on their desk like you're some partner thats been there for 20 years.

4. Valid. But maybe be the fun one night. Different firms have different values

5. Most of the better firms nowadays are pretty transparent that ~2-3 summers (if that) are going to end up partner (at that firm). A bunch have people in charge of advising and managing exit options for associates. So don't run around screaming about how you want to spend two years at a firm and split, but don't be afraid to discuss exit options with associates.

6. Completely valid.

[Mce252]

So there are two different views already about the importance of social events. Obviously, you don't blow off work to be there; but does anyone else have insight as to how social events effect hiring decisions?

Clearly, if you can't talk to people or control your drinking, this is an issue. But, if you're confident that you do well in a social environment and won't be found puking in the bathroom, is it really that big of a deal if you would rather go home and see your family during a couple of the events?

[ph14]

So there are two different views already about the importance of social events. Obviously, you don't blow off work to be there, but does anyone else have insight as to how social events effect hiring decisions?

Clearly, if you can't talk to people or control your drinking, this is an issue. But, if you're confident that you do well in a social environment and won't be found puking in the bathroom, is it really that big of a deal if you would rather go home and see your family?

For the majority of firms, no. But I can't speak to all, and perhaps some firms known for their social culture might be different. At least at my firm, it wouldn't hurt you in the least. Firms care about the quality of your work product, they're a business.

[wk1982]

Always look busy. Close your office door when you're spacing out and playing angry birds.

[Anonymous User]

So there are two different views already about the importance of social events. Obviously, you don't blow off work to be there, but does anyone else have insight as to how social events effect hiring decisions?

Clearly, if you can't talk to people or control your drinking, this is an issue. But, if you're confident that you do well in a social environment and won't be found puking in the bathroom, is it really that big of a deal if you would rather go home and see your family?

For the majority of firms, no. But I can't speak to all, and perhaps some firms known for their social culture might be different. At least at my firm, it wouldn't hurt you in the least. Firms care about the quality of your work product, they're a business.

Just from a common sense perspective I think it would also matter how social the office life is and how often outside social events occur. Obviously if you're everyone's BFF at the office and putting out good work product, you're not going to get no-offered for missing 1 of the 10 summer events. However also consider that if you spend all your time working and never build that personal connection you're the easiest one to no-offer.

I view this sort of like the CB/SA offer process, you ultimately want someone to fight for you and say "No we can't cut X. I like him/her and they've done solid work this summer" rather than "X did fine work but I like Y better and their work product isn't that different."

[Anonymous User]

So there are two different views already about the importance of social events. Obviously, you don't blow off work to be there, but does anyone else have insight as to how social events effect hiring decisions?

Clearly, if you can't talk to people or control your drinking, this is an issue. But, if you're confident that you do well in a social environment and won't be found puking in the bathroom, is it really that big of a deal if you would rather go home and see your family?

For the majority of firms, no. But I can't speak to all, and perhaps some firms known for their social culture might be different. At least at my firm, it wouldn't hurt you in the least. Firms care about the quality of your work product, they're a business.

This is bad advice.

The social events are part of the interview process too. If you have an emergency or a deadline to meet then by all means do that but not showing up for events that the firm planned for you is rude. How much it affects your chances of getting an offer varies widely by firm. But anecdotally, there was a girl that was no offered the year before me at my firm because she was not a good fit. According to the associates I talked to her work product was great and she didn't make any mistakes. She missed a couple social events including a weekend retreat and that rubbed some of the partners the wrong way. But mainly I heard that it came down to that she did not have anyone "excited" about her or "advocating" for her in the hiring committee meeting. Of course I am getting this all from associates (one of whom did not vote but got to sit in on the hiring meeting) but take that for what it is worth.

[ph14]

So there are two different views already about the importance of social events. Obviously, you don't blow off work to be there, but does anyone else have insight as to how social events effect hiring decisions?

Clearly, if you can't talk to people or control your drinking, this is an issue. But, if you're confident that you do well in a social environment and won't be found puking in the bathroom, is it really that big of a deal if you would rather go home and see your family?

For the majority of firms, no. But I can't speak to all, and perhaps some firms known for their social culture might be different. At least at my firm, it wouldn't hurt you in the least. Firms care about the quality of your work product, they're a business.

This is bad advice.

The social events are part of the interview process too. If you have an emergency or a deadline to meet then by all means do that but not showing up for events that the firm planned for you is rude. How much it affects your chances of getting an offer varies widely by firm. But anecdotally, there was a girl that was no offered the year before me at my firm because she was not a good fit. According to the associates I talked to her work product was great and she didn't make any mistakes. She missed a couple social events including a weekend retreat and that rubbed some of the partners the wrong way. But mainly I heard that it came down to that she did not have anyone "excited" about her or "advocating" for her in the hiring committee meeting. Of course I am getting this all from associates (one of whom did not vote but got to sit in on the hiring meeting) but take that for what it is worth.

Guess it depends on firms then. At mine, it wouldn't.

[Joan Hollaway]

Get friendly with the associates in the first couple of weeks and they can tell you what the firm really looks for. There is no one size fits all formula for each firm. Some firms are way more formal than others and expect different levels of input during the summer. Early on I was told by associates what was expected of me and I just followed their advice.

[AP-375]

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

[traehekat]

Look, if you have an anniversary or something and have to miss a social event, that is fine. Otherwise, just go. I mean really, is it such a burden that you would risk the possible negative consequences?