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Since I have great grades from a great school, and since there are no discernible qualifications, I must keep getting rejected from firms because of my shitty personality. I didn't think I had that terrible of a personality, but then again, I have never been popular or exceedingly well-liked, and that would be one explanation.

Is there a reliable way to quickly improve your personality? Or get less old (early 30s)? Thanks.

Try not to beat yourself up to much. I would not take law firm rejections as a referendum on my personality.

^agreeed.

Also, http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-I ... 0671723650 for some laughs

Same situation!! Trying so hard not to take it personally but it's pretty difficult at this point..

"Law Student Charm School" could be a great reality TV show.

I have a pretty good personality and would be willing to evaluate yours if you want.

Felt the same way last year but I kept mass mailing and eventually landed at a Vault firm in October. Talk to your CSO and see what they have to say.

Depends on your situation.

If grades/school = Top 10% / Yale bidding on NYC, probably personality

If Top 30% / BC bidding in SF with no ties, probably not

PMan99 wrote:Depends on your situation.

If grades/school = Top 10% / Yale bidding on NYC, probably personality

If Top 30% / BC bidding in SF with no ties, probably not

Haha what about top 10% and LR at CCN w/ okay ties to secondary market? Im trying to convince myself I might be having a flight risk issue? But it's been brutal!

There are reliable ways to improve a personality quickly. My CSO had me sit down with a consultant. Among the things they said after doing some mocks with me were to take a shot of vodka before going in (not kidding), adjust how I sat to off-set other elements of my personality (I came across as too serious, so they wanted a more relaxed posture), change my voice modulation so that it was more variable and seemed more casual, wear red or blue ties with relatively simple patterns (I already knew to avoid anything other than a white shirt). Also, it wasn't a problem for me, but they said that using hair gel and or other styling products can greatly change perceptions of age.

I'm in a similar boat-- top 20% at CCN and strong ties (grew up there, undergrad there) to a smaller secondary market (think Boston/Philadelphia/Atlanta/Miami). Out of ten screeners in that market, only two CBs and looking like no offers. Fortunately, also bid heavily on New York and have several V30 offers, but I really preferred my home market and am a little disappointed that I struck out with those firms.

Anonymous User wrote: Also, it wasn't a problem for me, but they said that using hair gel and or other styling products can greatly change perceptions of age.

change the perception in which direction - older or younger?

Yeah, "bad personality" isn't the best way to put it, unless you are talking in the most relative of terms. I'm not sycophantic, pusillanimous, silver-spooned, unoriginal, malodorous, persnickety, morally void, frumptious, or banal enough to fit the personality profile for which a good 1/2 of the firms are actively recruiting.

Unfortunately, nor am I shiney & loveable enough to ignite desires across the board at firms that don't actively look for dregs and droogs. And I'm old, which doesn't help.

Still, I'm plucky enough to eventually get an offer, and I'm damned sure gonna end up out-lawyering all of these punks.

Anonymous User wrote:

PMan99 wrote:Depends on your situation.

If grades/school = Top 10% / Yale bidding on NYC, probably personality

If Top 30% / BC bidding in SF with no ties, probably not

Haha what about top 10% and LR at CCN w/ okay ties to secondary market? Im trying to convince myself I might be having a flight risk issue? But it's been brutal!

Secondary markets may think you're overqualified. Firms may believe that you think DC/SF are sexier markets. Yield protection is big.

Are you a woman? Because if so, personality could have nothing to do with it, especially if other women are interviewing you. In short: there are a ton of reasons why you might get rejected that have nothing to do with your personality.

But if you think it is your personality, then maybe it is. Do mock interviews, and not just with CDO: if you have friends in business, ask them if one of their co-workers who interview people would be willing to do a practice phone interview with you, and give you feedback.

Rocío wrote:Are you a woman? Because if so, personality could have nothing to do with it, especially if other women are interviewing you. In short: there are a ton of reasons why you might get rejected that have nothing to do with your personality.

But if you think it is your personality, then maybe it is. Do mock interviews, and not just with CDO: if you have friends in business, ask them if one of their co-workers who interview people would be willing to do a practice phone interview with you, and give you feedback.

Yeah, that's good advice, but I've done plenty of that sort of stuff. I actually tend to think business interviews are quite the opposite of law firm interviews. Whenever I have interviewed someone for a position, I have always been very qualifications-focused, with things like personality and fit properly considered as afterthoughts. Firm interviews are basically tests of the all-important abilities to make small-talk with wretched people and ask questions that evince a suitably superficial knowledge of the firm. More like joining a particularly obnoxious fraternity than demonstrating your ability to do a job.

I think I've started to understand them well enough to jump through the hoops; it just took a while because it is the most inane process imaginable.

Anonymous User wrote:Felt the same way last year but I kept mass mailing and eventually landed at a Vault firm in October. Talk to your CSO and see what they have to say.

+1

Not for biglaw personality /= bad personality. Honestly, many people with bad personalities tend to thrive at the OCI process unfortunately.

Many aspects of the "not for biglaw personality" are easy to hide in 20-30 minute interviews, so talk to CSO about correcting those aspects. Other aspects are harder to hide and biglaw interviewers are generally fairly perceptive and may be catching on.

I'm saying this as someone who contacted my interviewers who told me that while they loved my interview and my credentials were easily sufficient, they sensed something about me that made me think I was a bad fit for biglaw. I went to OCS and got an offer from the first of my far below expected amount of callbacks.

Admittedly, this probably only accounted for half or less of my dings (I was above the grade cutoff for all of my 19 OCI screeners). I straight up bombed the others.

I'm pretty convinced that it's not me, it's just the worst process for hiring people that could possibly be conceived in a thousand years of conceiving terrible ways to do things. It is god-damned amazing that biglaw is still around when their main resources are humans and this is how they choose to hire them.

I have talked to my CSO plenty and my guy has been a great friend and his advice throughout has been semi-helpful. He pointed out some areas where I could improve on the margins, and I've ironed out some kinks. My whole problem was a focus on qualifications/selling myself/telling my story/trying to point out concrete examples that either (A) demonstrated my interest in and nascent knowledge of their practice areas; or (B) showed how my past experiences would help me do a better job at their firm. I have since changed my focus to a blend of subtle ego-stroking, being "interesting" and "interested," and generally being enthusiastic but not really "trying," and asking boring questions about how work is assigned instead and acting like the answer is just the most golly-gee amazing thing I've ever heard. My last round of interviews went well, I think, but I was still just slightly-oh-slightly off. I was still trying to sell it just a little too hard. Now I feel like I know exactly what they want, and I can just feed it to them, spoonful by spoonful, until they start vomiting out offers.

I do wonder if part of it is that my distaste for big law firms gives off some sort of scent that betrays me? It's certainly nothing overt from my spiel and almost nothing overt from my resume (85% b'ness). I have an on-campus screener with FTC Consumer Protection, which would be pretty close to my dream job. I know they hire at least a few of their summers, but I'm not sure how what %. And I wonder how tenable of a path FTC summer--->D.Ct. clerkship in flyover state--->FTC job is?

Anyways, one more firm job interview on the calendar. These guys seem pretty nifty. At the very least, I've enjoyed my interactions with their recruiter and their website makes it seem decent enough. Wish me luck, and thanks for the advice.

Anonymous User wrote: Haha what about top 10% and LR at CCN w/ okay ties to secondary market? Im trying to convince myself I might be having a flight risk issue? But it's been brutal!

because of the bolded, firms in secondary markets will likely presume that you view said market as a last resort. I see it as being up to you to convince them otherwise. Their data will (presumably) show that people in your shoes end up going for the greener pastures. I'm not so sure that you can say it's "bad personality" until you get dinged at a bunch of top firms in major markets.

rouser wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Haha what about top 10% and LR at CCN w/ okay ties to secondary market? Im trying to convince myself I might be having a flight risk issue? But it's been brutal!

because of the bolded, firms in secondary markets will likely presume that you view said market as a last resort. I see it as being up to you to convince them otherwise. Their data will show that people in your shoes end up going for the greener pastures. I'm not so sure that you can say it's "bad personality" until you get dinged at a bunch of top firms in major markets.

Maybe, I would say depends on the nature of the ties, really. Lots of people go to good schools and come back home. NYC is a shitty place to live and a shittier place to practice law, so it's a sensible thing to do. Firms understand this.

But this ain't me, the person who has been blah-blah-blah-ing tonight, though. My grades are the same, my school is a few notches "worse," US News-wise, and my journal is not LR.

Anonymous User wrote:

rouser wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Haha what about top 10% and LR at CCN w/ okay ties to secondary market? Im trying to convince myself I might be having a flight risk issue? But it's been brutal!

because of the bolded, firms in secondary markets will likely presume that you view said market as a last resort. I see it as being up to you to convince them otherwise. Their data will show that people in your shoes end up going for the greener pastures. I'm not so sure that you can say it's "bad personality" until you get dinged at a bunch of top firms in major markets.

Maybe, I would say depends on the nature of the ties, really. Lots of people go to good schools and come back home. NYC is a shitty place to live and a shittier place to practice law, so it's a sensible thing to do.

But this ain't me, the person who has been blah-blah-blah-ing tonight, though. My grades are the same, my school is a few notches "worse," US News-wise, and my journal is not LR.

I agree; tough to generalize. From secondary firm's POV, that person applying who is top 10% at CLS could have a burden of convincing them why he/she is turning down the higher salary and better exit options. Then again, the secondary market firm also knows its own selling points. Interviewer just has to bring them up and be blunt about it...

Rocío wrote:Are you a woman? Because if so, personality could have nothing to do with it, especially if other women are interviewing you.

Wow. Sexist much? I hope to god you aren't a woman who thinks all other women are out to get you.

You may want to peruse a book called Guerrilla Tactics for Getting the Legal Job. Its pretty entertaining and may give you some ammo.

With those credentials you should be on the defensive. Don't worry about impressing them. just sit there and let them guide the conversation and be totally relaxed.

seriously. aggressive interviewing is for people who are under-qualified for the position. you're fine. just chill and let it happen.