Top Law Schools

Basically, I need a list of companies that hire in-house straight out of law school (I am already familiar with Exxon and Shell's programs). I have a full ride to a Top 17 and great grades + Law Review, but my enthusiasm for big law is nonexistent, so I'm dropping out if this isn't a viable option. I don't think small law is an option either. It seems like law is all about confrontation, competition, ass-kissing, and one-upping other people, and I'm so so sick of it already. I will kill myself if I have to spend my entire career around law school types.

Also, I got into an MPA (accounting) at my school, which is very well respected for accounting. If I combined this with a JD, is big 4 a possibility?

You sound like you hate the idea of practicing law. But it is hard to tell if you are generally depressed or just hating law specifically. or maybe just panicked about jobs? I'm not sure if a sudden switch to accounting would make you happier.

Because you have no debt, perhaps you should stay for a semester and see? If you were doing badly or had debt I would strongly consider droppIng out. Only you can answer the question of whether you hate law or don't want to be a lawyer. If you don't want to be a lawyer, drop out.


Fwiw- I know the Exxon program is a good one.

EDIT- I misread the accounting thing - I don't know about big 4, or anything about accounting. But definitely research that before you make a decision. I didn't mean to put down accounting as an option.

Anonymous User wrote:Basically, I need a list of companies that hire in-house straight out of law school (I am already familiar with Exxon and Shell's programs). I have a full ride to a Top 17 and great grades + Law Review, but my enthusiasm for big law is nonexistent, so I'm dropping out if this isn't a viable option. I don't think small law is an option either. It seems like law is all about confrontation, competition, ass-kissing, and one-upping other people, and I'm so so sick of it already. I will kill myself if I have to spend my entire career around law school types.

Also, I got into an MPA (accounting) at my school, which is very well respected for accounting. If I combined this with a JD, is big 4 a possibility?

Since when is "Top 17" a thing?

Anonymous User wrote:It seems like law is all about confrontation, competition, ass-kissing, and one-upping other people

No?

sunynp wrote:You sound like you hate the idea of practicing law. But it is hard to tell if you are generally depressed or just hating law specifically. or maybe just panicked about jobs? I'm not sure if a sudden switch to accounting would make you happier.

Because you have no debt, perhaps you should stay for a semester and see? If you were doing badly or had debt I would strongly consider droppIng out. Only you can answer the question of whether you hate law or don't want to be a lawyer. If you don't want to be a lawyer, drop out.


Fwiw- I know the Exxon program is a good one.

EDIT- I misread the accounting thing - I don't know about big 4, or anything about accounting. But definitely research that before you make a decision. I didn't mean to put down accounting as an option.

I didn't do very well in OCI due to my attitude and depressed state of mind, but I still have some callbacks, so no, I'm not panicked about jobs. My secondary market tends to hire later anyway. Basically, I worked very hard the first year, did well, law review yada yada and then right near the beginning of the second semester, I snapped and decided I hated it. I don't think I want to practice law, but I think I would like in-house or a nonpracticing or JD-preferred career, like Big 4. I just have trouble finding information on these things.

Anonymous User wrote:Basically, I need a list of companies that hire in-house straight out of law school (I am already familiar with Exxon and Shell's programs). I have a full ride to a Top 17 and great grades + Law Review, but my enthusiasm for big law is nonexistent, so I'm dropping out if this isn't a viable option. I don't think small law is an option either. It seems like law is all about confrontation, competition, ass-kissing, and one-upping other people, and I'm so so sick of it already. I will kill myself if I have to spend my entire career around law school types.

Also, I got into an MPA (accounting) at my school, which is very well respected for accounting. If I combined this with a JD, is big 4 a possibility?

If you can't find people in law school you like (apparently those who aren't about "about confrontation, competition, ass-kissing, and one-upping" each other) then the problem is you. Because they're there. The law attracts a lot of different types of people. There is no single kind of person attracted by the law. I could not be more sick of the "everyone at my law school (other than me) is a jerk. . . woe is me" schtick.

Medtronic has hired fresh JDs, but I don't know if they have an actual program geared for it.

HeavenWood wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:It seems like law is all about confrontation, competition, ass-kissing, and one-upping other people

No?

Most large law firms are highly leveraged and, thus, encourage this type of behavior. Most law students are inclined to this type of behavior anyway. Lit boutiques involve litigation, which I definitely do not want to do since I hate public speaking. I prefer transactional law, but most of this is big law, so it involves cutthroat competition between associates and tons of stress.

eliekedourie wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Basically, I need a list of companies that hire in-house straight out of law school (I am already familiar with Exxon and Shell's programs). I have a full ride to a Top 17 and great grades + Law Review, but my enthusiasm for big law is nonexistent, so I'm dropping out if this isn't a viable option. I don't think small law is an option either. It seems like law is all about confrontation, competition, ass-kissing, and one-upping other people, and I'm so so sick of it already. I will kill myself if I have to spend my entire career around law school types.

Also, I got into an MPA (accounting) at my school, which is very well respected for accounting. If I combined this with a JD, is big 4 a possibility?

If you can't find people in law school you like (apparently those who aren't about "about confrontation, competition, ass-kissing, and one-upping" each other) then the problem is you. Because they're there. The law attracts a lot of different types of people. There is no single kind of person attracted by the law. I could not be more sick of the "everyone at my law school (other than me) is a jerk. . . woe is me" schtick.

Disagree.

Anonymous User wrote:

HeavenWood wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:It seems like law is all about confrontation, competition, ass-kissing, and one-upping other people

No?

Most large law firms are highly leveraged and, thus, encourage this type of behavior. Most law students are inclined to this type of behavior anyway. Lit boutiques involve litigation, which I definitely do not want to do since I hate public speaking. I prefer transactional law, but most of this is big law, so it involves cutthroat competition between associates and tons of stress.

Not nearly to the extreme you suggest, and certainly not the type of behavior most people exhibit when they're not working. It's also the same kind of shtick you'll find in most any high-powered, business-oriented, white collar professional work environment. If the law isn't for you for other reasons, fair enough. But this focus on behavioral bullshit is just that.

Where did you work 1L summer? With a full ride, I'd at least try working at a firm first before writing it off (although with your negative attitude towards firms, you'd probably just have a self-fulfilling prophecy thing going on, so maybe not).

Anonymous User wrote:Most large law firms are highly leveraged and, thus, encourage this type of behavior. Most law students are inclined to this type of behavior anyway. Lit boutiques involve litigation, which I definitely do not want to do since I hate public speaking. I prefer transactional law, but most of this is big law, so it involves cutthroat competition between associates and tons of stress.

Litigation has very little public speaking. I'm not sure if most of biglaw has associates competing with each other but from what I've seen I don't think that's the case all the time or nearly all the time.

HeavenWood wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

HeavenWood wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:It seems like law is all about confrontation, competition, ass-kissing, and one-upping other people

No?

Most large law firms are highly leveraged and, thus, encourage this type of behavior. Most law students are inclined to this type of behavior anyway. Lit boutiques involve litigation, which I definitely do not want to do since I hate public speaking. I prefer transactional law, but most of this is big law, so it involves cutthroat competition between associates and tons of stress.

Not nearly to the extreme you suggest, and certainly not the type of behavior most people exhibit when they're not working. It's also the same kind of shtick you'll find in most any high-powered, business-oriented, white collar professional work environment. If the law isn't for you for other reasons, fair enough. But this focus on behavioral bullshit is just that.

So what doesn't involve this? I talked to one of Shell/Exxon today while they were in-between interviews, and without me bringing it up at all, they repeatedly emphasized that their working environment does NOT have this sort of thing going on. I know several attorneys who fled big law to in-house because they didn't like the working environment.

bk187 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Most large law firms are highly leveraged and, thus, encourage this type of behavior. Most law students are inclined to this type of behavior anyway. Lit boutiques involve litigation, which I definitely do not want to do since I hate public speaking. I prefer transactional law, but most of this is big law, so it involves cutthroat competition between associates and tons of stress.

Litigation has very little public speaking. I'm not sure if most of biglaw has associates competing with each other but from what I've seen I don't think that's the case all the time or nearly all the time.

It may be I am just burned out/super depressed from working hard the first year and then going to job fairs and mass mailing all summer for meager results. Also, went to tons of networking events but find talking to big law attorneys so painful and boring. It's so hard to feign interest in something in which I have no interest, and I'm just exhausted all over. I don't feel like I can do well this semester. I need to either change my focus or take a leave of absence (maybe for "medical" reasons, like depression/social anxiety) because I just know my grades are going to tank this semester at the rate things are going.

Also, do big firm social events always involve bars with loud, loud music? I get headaches and seriously irritated by all that noise, and I can't ever hear what anyone is saying. I've gone to like 15 of these in two weeks.

Anonymous User wrote:Also, I got into an MPA (accounting) at my school, which is very well respected for accounting. If I combined this with a JD, is big 4 a possibility?

I can't speak to the others, but PWC participates in OCI at a number of schools. I'm at UC Hastings and know upperclassmen that went on to work for them with just a JD and no other work experience or degrees.

The biggest draw for them was if you took any tax courses in law school and did well in them. In the Bay Area Stanford, Boalt, and Hastings all allow 1Ls to take a tax elective 1L year, which PWC then looks for. If your school doesn't offer that (I know UCLA and others on the West Coast don't), then just be sure to explain that you are planning on taking a tax course ASAP.

You'd better get on it though, they definitely saw some people at OCI already.

Anonymous User wrote:It may be I am just burned out/super depressed from working hard the first year and then going to job fairs and mass mailing all summer for meager results. Also, went to tons of networking events but find talking to big law attorneys so painful and boring. It's so hard to feign interest in something in which I have no interest, and I'm just exhausted all over. I don't feel like I can do well this semester. I need to either change my focus or take a leave of absence (maybe for "medical" reasons, like depression/social anxiety) because I just know my grades are going to tank this semester at the rate things are going.

Also, do big firm social events always involve bars with loud, loud music? I get headaches and seriously irritated by all that noise, and I can't ever hear what anyone is saying. I've gone to like 15 of these in two weeks.

I personally hate networking and think it's fucking atrocious. Feigning enthusiasm in people/things that you might normally be interested in but are basically plastering a perma-smile on your face does get tiring. Maybe we're in different markets but I can't recall going to a firm event at a bar with loud music.

You've just gone/are going through a process that is all about "competition, ass-kissing, and one-upping other people" (OCI) and I would hazard that it's coloring your views on things. I'm not saying that law is for you but I would try and take a step back before closing any doors. Take a deep breath and if you need a leave of absence then go for it.

HeavenWood wrote: Not nearly to the extreme you suggest, and certainly not the type of behavior most people exhibit when they're not working. It's also the same kind of shtick you'll find in most any high-powered, business-oriented, white collar professional work environment. If the law isn't for you for other reasons, fair enough. But this focus on behavioral bullshit is just that.

Meh. I think law firms are more ass-kissy than other work environments. Though possibly with some good reasons. It's also more competitive, IMO. It has its advantages and drawbacks, as does big 4 or any other professional setting. I do rather wonder though, if someone who hates the mere idea of working at a law firm could find a job that didn't make him miserable. Furthermore, it sounds like OP is over-extrapolating how law school is, assuming firm life is similar.