The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[bk1]

dumb question: how competitive/prestigious is a clerkship for the bigger district courts (e.g. sdny)? trying to figure out if i even have a shot.

District court clerkships are very competitive, especially in the larger districts but even in the smaller ones. And pretty much all district court clerkships are considered prestigious though larger district courts are probably more sought after by firms since they tend to correlate to areas where biglaw firms are located and often where they litigate.

Whether you have a shot depends on your stats but clerkship hiring is also kind of a crapshoot as well. If you don't have a job you might as well apply since you have nothing to lose.

[bk1]

Clerkship interview offer out of state, to a state I've never been to. Travel expenses will not be reimbursed and the trip will cost me around 500. What should I do? Should I ask if they'll Skype? If they say no is there a tactful way to ask what my chances are if I make the trip?

Ask about Skyping, but unfortunately that's the way clerkship interviews roll. You have to suck it up and go into debt if you want the chance to clerk. (Not defending that, mind you.) I don't think there's a tactful way to ask about your chances, no (and even if you could, how would an answer really change your plans? They're not going to say you only have a slim chance - what degree of chance would be too little for you to spend the money?). If it's any consolation, most judges don't want to spend a lot of time interviewing, and so I doubt you're one of hordes.

Agreed with this. If you need the job and they judge won't do Skype then I'd eat the $500. It may not work out and be $500 wasted but the upside is pretty high if it does work out.

[JenDarby]

See if your school has any reimbursement program. Fordham actually reimbursed 100% of clerkship travel expenses since so few people applied for it.

[kalvano]

dumb question: how competitive/prestigious is a clerkship for the bigger district courts (e.g. sdny)? trying to figure out if i even have a shot.

SDNY will be extremely, extremely competitive. I'd guess probably in the top 5 most competitive clerkships.

[sparty99]

what are your guys' thoughts about accepting a job offer (permanent employment) for a job you don't love as a 3L, but continuing to apply for other things through the summer and fall while you are working there? is there any major risk in backing out post-offer-acceptance, but before you begin? what about a risk in only working a job for a few months before going to something you like better, and want to stay in for a while?

There is no hesitation, you take the first offer that you get and continue to look. No ifs ands or butts about it.

[chrisbru]

what are your guys' thoughts about accepting a job offer (permanent employment) for a job you don't love as a 3L, but continuing to apply for other things through the summer and fall while you are working there? is there any major risk in backing out post-offer-acceptance, but before you begin? what about a risk in only working a job for a few months before going to something you like better, and want to stay in for a while?

There is no hesitation, you take the first offer that you get and continue to look. No ifs ands or butts about it.

I dunno, it depends on the offer. If its a terrible salary in a town you'd never want to be in, does it even make sense to accept in the first place? Working food service and looking for a job in a place you have friends/family and don't hate beats living in the middle of nowhere, knowing no one, and not making enough money to leave on weekends.

[Anonymous User]

So I have an offer with a firm I really like with a group of attorneys I really like, however, I very much dislike the practice area, ID. Now I have an interview with on Monday with a solo firm doing something I actually have an interest in (estate planning). I think the offer I have will probably pay more and I know I can stick around for awhile, but I'm concerned about being pigeonholed into ID. I'm going to interview with the estate planning to see where it goes. Should I go hard for this estate planning gig?

[Anonymous User]

After 9 months of unanswered emails, skinny envelopes, and hung up phone calls, I think I may be close to leaving the vale. Randomly overheard a biglaw partner say to a professor that his group needed help. I hung around to walk with him to his vehicle - later emailed asking if he was serious or if that was frustrated facetiousness speaking. My email went unanswered for a few days - evidently he started asking former professors about me. They vouched, and fast forward 8 days, I've now had 2 partner lunch screens and a full half-day callback.

It feels promising, though my paranoia is choking. They wouldn't bother with this much time and effort if (1) there wasn't a position, and (2) I wasn't ticking the right boxes for qualification, right? I even had to fill out a lengthy conflicts of interest disclosure form.

Could it be? Could I soon stop putting everything on ever-more-frightening credit cards? Any advice for continuing to stay in front of them now that it's largely out of my hands?

Original anon here. Got the offer yesterday. I can start before sitting for the bar. From panic to big law in less than a month. Obviously, I am beyond awestruck.

Luck and fate are no joke. I truly hope you all find your "right place, right time" moment as well.

[deadpanic]

So I have an offer with a firm I really like with a group of attorneys I really like, however, I very much dislike the practice area, ID. Now I have an interview with on Monday with a solo firm doing something I actually have an interest in (estate planning). I think the offer I have will probably pay more and I know I can stick around for awhile, but I'm concerned about being pigeonholed into ID. I'm going to interview with the estate planning to see where it goes. Should I go hard for this estate planning gig?

Personally, I would be hesitant to join a solo. I don't know too many that can pay a steady salary with room for advancement. (Does the solo only do estate planning? That's weird to me)

I think you should really weigh how much an area of practice means. For me, what I've found practicing is that it's honestly all relatively the same--boring yet stressful. So the way I see it, you need to get the most money that will give you the best room for advancement/exit options. Not saying don't follow your dreams but keep it in perspective.

I wouldn't feel comfortable putting all my eggs in one basket with a solo who practices estate planning. I would interview (but not "go hard" - as in, don't say "I will definitely take this gig if offered") and see what the offer is. If the offers are similar in salary and he has a steady practice, then it is a tougher decision and would be completely justifiable to join the solo.

[steele]

After 9 months of unanswered emails, skinny envelopes, and hung up phone calls, I think I may be close to leaving the vale. Randomly overheard a biglaw partner say to a professor that his group needed help. I hung around to walk with him to his vehicle - later emailed asking if he was serious or if that was frustrated facetiousness speaking. My email went unanswered for a few days - evidently he started asking former professors about me. They vouched, and fast forward 8 days, I've now had 2 partner lunch screens and a full half-day callback.

It feels promising, though my paranoia is choking. They wouldn't bother with this much time and effort if (1) there wasn't a position, and (2) I wasn't ticking the right boxes for qualification, right? I even had to fill out a lengthy conflicts of interest disclosure form.

Could it be? Could I soon stop putting everything on ever-more-frightening credit cards? Any advice for continuing to stay in front of them now that it's largely out of my hands?

Original anon here. Got the offer yesterday. I can start before sitting for the bar. From panic to big law in less than a month. Obviously, I am beyond awestruck.

Luck and fate are no joke. I truly hope you all find your "right place, right time" moment as well.

Congrats!

[spleenworship]

So I have an offer with a firm I really like with a group of attorneys I really like, however, I very much dislike the practice area, ID. Now I have an interview with on Monday with a solo firm doing something I actually have an interest in (estate planning). I think the offer I have will probably pay more and I know I can stick around for awhile, but I'm concerned about being pigeonholed into ID. I'm going to interview with the estate planning to see where it goes. Should I go hard for this estate planning gig?

Personally, I would be hesitant to join a solo. I don't know too many that can pay a steady salary with room for advancement. (Does the solo only do estate planning? That's weird to me)

I think you should really weigh how much an area of practice means. For me, what I've found practicing is that it's honestly all relatively the same--boring yet stressful. So the way I see it, you need to get the most money that will give you the best room for advancement/exit options. Not saying don't follow your dreams but keep it in perspective.

I wouldn't feel comfortable putting all my eggs in one basket with a solo who practices estate planning. I would interview (but not "go hard" - as in, don't say "I will definitely take this gig if offered") and see what the offer is. If the offers are similar in salary and he has a steady practice, then it is a tougher decision and would be completely justifiable to join the solo.

I don't necessarily have as much of an issue with going with a solo as panic does... But I would say it's vital to make sure your personalities match. 50-60 hours a week you'll spend with this person. If there is any disagreements on personality you'll hate your job sooooo bad. Just be careful.

[Anonymous User]

EDIT: They agreed to a phone interview.

Out of state clerkship anon here. Any advice here from Valers or ex-Valers who have taken a job in a state where they knew no one? I've never lived outside my home state before and I'm starting to get super cold feet about this interview. The legal market here is dead though, I have a tower of rejection letters from jobs I should've been super qualified for and I'm not married with kids or SOs to worry about. But my entire family and all my friends are here and I never really traveled. It's a good opportunity though and the pay is competitive, I'm just worried about being incredibly lonely if I do manage to snag the job. Advice?

[kalvano]

EDIT: They agreed to a phone interview.

Out of state clerkship anon here. Any advice here from Valers or ex-Valers who have taken a job in a state where they knew no one? I've never lived outside my home state before and I'm starting to get super cold feet about this interview. The legal market here is dead though, I have a tower of rejection letters from jobs I should've been super qualified for and I'm not married with kids or SOs to worry about. But my entire family and all my friends are here and I never really traveled. It's a good opportunity though and the pay is competitive, I'm just worried about being incredibly lonely if I do manage to snag the job. Advice?

Other judges will have clerks, too. Get to know them, see if your judge will take you to a happy hour, that sort of thing. Or just get involved in a hobby or activity that gets you out and helps you meet non-attorney people.

[Gefuehlsecht]

Advice?

You'll be earning money to occasionally pay a hooker...

For crying out loud, seriously, take the job and meet some new people. You'll be fine.

[legalese_retard]

EDIT: They agreed to a phone interview.

Out of state clerkship anon here. Any advice here from Valers or ex-Valers who have taken a job in a state where they knew no one? I've never lived outside my home state before and I'm starting to get super cold feet about this interview. The legal market here is dead though, I have a tower of rejection letters from jobs I should've been super qualified for and I'm not married with kids or SOs to worry about. But my entire family and all my friends are here and I never really traveled. It's a good opportunity though and the pay is competitive, I'm just worried about being incredibly lonely if I do manage to snag the job. Advice?

Other judges will have clerks, too. Get to know them, see if your judge will take you to a happy hour, that sort of thing. Or just get involved in a hobby or activity that gets you out and helps you meet non-attorney people.

+1. The clerkship will only be 1-2 years. Take advantage of having the additional time off, even if you are alone. Get a hobby, volunteer, take a class at the local college/university, read a book, etc.

Just make sure to put yourself in the proper mindset before your interview. If you have those concerns looming, it will probably show in your interview and the judge will assume that you are uninterested. At the end of the day, just remember: it is a SHORT-TERM gig...you can suck things up for one to two years.

[sparty99]

EDIT: They agreed to a phone interview.

Out of state clerkship anon here. Any advice here from Valers or ex-Valers who have taken a job in a state where they knew no one? I've never lived outside my home state before and I'm starting to get super cold feet about this interview. The legal market here is dead though, I have a tower of rejection letters from jobs I should've been super qualified for and I'm not married with kids or SOs to worry about. But my entire family and all my friends are here and I never really traveled. It's a good opportunity though and the pay is competitive, I'm just worried about being incredibly lonely if I do manage to snag the job. Advice?

Wow. You sound like a momma's boy. Meeting new people isn't that hard. Dang.

[Lwoods]

EDIT: They agreed to a phone interview.

Out of state clerkship anon here. Any advice here from Valers or ex-Valers who have taken a job in a state where they knew no one? I've never lived outside my home state before and I'm starting to get super cold feet about this interview. The legal market here is dead though, I have a tower of rejection letters from jobs I should've been super qualified for and I'm not married with kids or SOs to worry about. But my entire family and all my friends are here and I never really traveled. It's a good opportunity though and the pay is competitive, I'm just worried about being incredibly lonely if I do manage to snag the job. Advice?

Wow. You sound like a momma's boy. Meeting new people isn't that hard. Dang.

Anon. Congrats and good luck on the interview! I've moved a handful of times as an adult, and there is a certain challenge to building a new network once you've left school. The earlier suggestions about going out with co-workers or joining local organizations are definitely credited. In my first new town after college but before law school, I met a lot of friends through the Junior League--many of whom worked for the same corporation as I did but in different areas. Through my first few friends, I met their friends and S/Os and then friends of friends, etc. Start meeting people and making bonds, but also say yes to every invitation in the beginning to give yourself an opportunity to meet other people you might click with. Get some numbers, make some plans for happy hour or coffee, etc. It can be intimidating at first, but eventually you'll get to meet some awesome new people.

[Anonymous User]

EDIT: They agreed to a phone interview.

Out of state clerkship anon here. Any advice here from Valers or ex-Valers who have taken a job in a state where they knew no one? I've never lived outside my home state before and I'm starting to get super cold feet about this interview. The legal market here is dead though, I have a tower of rejection letters from jobs I should've been super qualified for and I'm not married with kids or SOs to worry about. But my entire family and all my friends are here and I never really traveled. It's a good opportunity though and the pay is competitive, I'm just worried about being incredibly lonely if I do manage to snag the job. Advice?

Wow. You sound like a momma's boy. Meeting new people isn't that hard. Dang.

Momma's girl actually.

Edit: Not even worth it. If you can't figure out why a single girl might be hesitant to move to one of the biggest cities in the country alone, you're too stupid to argue with.

[sparty99]

EDIT: They agreed to a phone interview.

Out of state clerkship anon here. Any advice here from Valers or ex-Valers who have taken a job in a state where they knew no one? I've never lived outside my home state before and I'm starting to get super cold feet about this interview. The legal market here is dead though, I have a tower of rejection letters from jobs I should've been super qualified for and I'm not married with kids or SOs to worry about. But my entire family and all my friends are here and I never really traveled. It's a good opportunity though and the pay is competitive, I'm just worried about being incredibly lonely if I do manage to snag the job. Advice?

Wow. You sound like a momma's boy. Meeting new people isn't that hard. Dang.

Momma's girl actually.

Edit: Not even worth it. If you can't figure out why a single girl might be hesitant to move to one of the biggest cities in the country alone, you're too stupid to argue with.

If you will be lonely in one of the biggest cities in the country, then you need social skills. Seriously. It sounds like you need to do this to grow as a person if moving to a state with no friends and family is an ordeal.

[chrisbru]

Wow. You sound like a momma's boy. Meeting new people isn't that hard. Dang.

Momma's girl actually.

Edit: Not even worth it. If you can't figure out why a single girl might be hesitant to move to one of the biggest cities in the country alone, you're too stupid to argue with.

If you will be lonely in one of the biggest cities in the country, then you need social skills. Seriously. It sounds like you need to do this to grow as a person if moving to a state with no friends and family is an ordeal.

Now, now, Sparty, you're being an asshole again for no reason. Being female in a big city without a support system or someone you trust is probably pretty intimidating.

Anon, congrats on the interview. Moving to a new city can be daunting, but there are things you can do to get "integrated" and meet people very easily. One thing to do is contact the alumni offices for your undergrad and law school and see if they can put you in touch with other females close to your age. You can ask about where to live, and maybe meet some friends that way. Also, getting together with other clerks will be nice. Beyond that, get involved in some activities you like to do... Be it a young professionals group, a church group (if you're religious), a volunteer organization, or even things like fitness classes and such.

[Danger Zone]

Just ignore sparty. No one takes him seriously. Best of luck in your big move.

[spleenworship]

Two people were offered jobs at the PDs office I interviewed with. They still have more spots, I know... But I haven't gotten a call or email.


I want to fucking throw up. I don't know if I can handle being rejected again from a PDs office. Especially since I interned there, and they're hiring 50% of the people they interviewed (20 people, 10 spots). Fuuuuuuuuuuck.

[jess]

.

[spleenworship]

Good luck Jess.

[presh]

EDIT: They agreed to a phone interview.

Out of state clerkship anon here. Any advice here from Valers or ex-Valers who have taken a job in a state where they knew no one? I've never lived outside my home state before and I'm starting to get super cold feet about this interview. The legal market here is dead though, I have a tower of rejection letters from jobs I should've been super qualified for and I'm not married with kids or SOs to worry about. But my entire family and all my friends are here and I never really traveled. It's a good opportunity though and the pay is competitive, I'm just worried about being incredibly lonely if I do manage to snag the job. Advice?

Wow. You sound like a momma's boy. Meeting new people isn't that hard. Dang.

Momma's girl actually.

Edit: Not even worth it. If you can't figure out why a single girl might be hesitant to move to one of the biggest cities in the country alone, you're too stupid to argue with.

Anon, I've been in this exact situation. I took a job right out of law school that required me to live in a fairly large city across the country from my family where I didn't know anyone. It was intimidating and lonely at first. But chrisbru is right, you just have to put some effort into meeting people and it'll happen. Your coworkers will likely be in the same boat and you can find activities to meet like minded people. I met some really close friends by taking an acting class! Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about it.