The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[andythefir]

Well, this is a pretty terrible time to be in the Vale.

Not wrong, but it should be way better than 2008 because law school enrollment is so much lower. So even if the same number of jobs disappear, there are fewer law grads chasing the remaining jobs.

[2L2B]

Well, this is a pretty terrible time to be in the Vale.

it really is. Unemployment here I come!

[Anonymous User]

Well, this is a pretty terrible time to be in the Vale.

it really is. Unemployment here I come!

Yup! At least the misery of the 3L job hunt has now been mixed with amusement about how bats**t this whole situation is.

Fwiw, I did receive an email from a big firm in late March expressing interest in setting up an interview, but saying that they were freezing hiring and would get back to me with an update in a few weeks. No idea whether they will end up trying to fill that position, but it's at least a glimmer of hope that firms aren't completely shutting the door on hiring first years yet.

[2L2B]

Well, this is a pretty terrible time to be in the Vale.

it really is. Unemployment here I come!

Yup! At least the misery of the 3L job hunt has now been mixed with amusement about how bats**t this whole situation is.

Fwiw, I did receive an email from a big firm in late March expressing interest in setting up an interview, but saying that they were freezing hiring and would get back to me with an update in a few weeks. No idea whether they will end up trying to fill that position, but it's at least a glimmer of hope that firms aren't completely shutting the door on hiring first years yet.

same thing happened to me. went through first call with partner, got connected with a second and then radio silence.

[Anonymous User]

3L here and just received an offer with a regulator in the government relations department. Will having a quasi-legal job hurt me in the long run in terms of firm prospects?

[Anonymous User]

3L trying to job hunt in midst of pandemic. At T14 school, but weak grades. Looking for jobs anywhere. Any suggestions on places hiring now?

[objctnyrhnr]

3L trying to job hunt in midst of pandemic. At T14 school, but weak grades. Looking for jobs anywhere. Any suggestions on places hiring now?

Gobiglaw.com always has a list of like 30 positions open in major cities nationwide, about 1/3 of which are typically in nyc. The service is free.

Beyond that, clerkships clerkships clerkships. And once you land one (your school name could make you competitive for an article 1 or a SSC in a flyover), start applying to others for the subsequent year. Play your cards right and you could have an a3 under your belt just in time for the market to pick back up.*
PM me if you have additional questions. My PM door is always open.

*common wisdom is that sscs and a1 clerkships are typically only helpful in regions in which you want to practice. But in these times, land something you can be reasonably proud to put in a resume and figure out the rest later. Geographic flexibility is a huge plus right now.

[objctnyrhnr]

3L here and just received an offer with a regulator in the government relations department. Will having a quasi-legal job hurt me in the long run in terms of firm prospects?

Potentially, but (without knowing more specifics about the position) that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t take it ITE.

Many believe that if you don’t break into biglaw straight out, you won’t. And it is true that it’s much harder to do it if you don’t get it straight out, but for a decent networker who catches a warm market it’s far from impossible. There’s little aggregate data collected on biglaw moves after 9 months post grad, so it’s all anecdotal but I can tell you that it happens.

The main thing you can do to hurt yourself at this point is waiting too long to jump.

So as soon as you start, if not before, you want to put a huge amount of effort into networking. Make a list of firms you want and try to get to know one partner/senior associate at every one of those firms. One coffee every few years suffices to keep these connections up.

And meanwhile, monitor the market in your target region/s very closely even while you are just starting your job. When this works well, you happen to see an opening some months or a year after you’ve gotten coffee with a connection and you reach out to that person directly and they internally submit you.

Clerkships help too if you have any interest in anything lit related.

Good luck.

[OzymandiastheWindhov]

A rising 3L - the pandemic sniped my original summer position - so I'm working as a research assistant to a professor and for a department in the university. My GPA is bottom 25% (and what would have been my best semester was sidetracked by the mandatory P/F). A bunch of the firms that come to our 3L OCIs are in hiring freeze/pay-cut mode right now, and it looks like it's going to be a bloodbath.

All this to say - looks like I'm in the Vale.

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3L who had been planning to attempt to use 3L OCI to get to a firm that has the practice area I want.

Is it "forbidden" (or virtually forbidden / very discouraged, like turning down a federal judge for a 1L summer internship) to back out of an offer you accept, if needed, a few months from now?

Maybe 3L OCI isn't even possible this year - but I wouldn't want to put anything at risk.

[burritotaco]

Rising 3L who had been planning to attempt to use 3L OCI to get to a firm that has the practice area I want.

Is it "forbidden" (or virtually forbidden / very discouraged, like turning down a federal judge for a 1L summer internship) to back out of an offer you accept, if needed, a few months from now?

Maybe 3L OCI isn't even possible this year - but I wouldn't want to put anything at risk.

You should do whatever you think is in your best interests, irrespective of how it may mildly inconvenience an employer. If you think it makes sense to rescind on an acceptance, do it.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Yeah, there's no honor among thieves with biglaw employment offers. Employers readily renege on offers when they need to and so do incoming employees. People sometimes quit during their first year, which is way more costly to the firm then never onboarding someone in the first place. But that's how at-will works. Your only obligation is to give as much advance notice as you feel you can; if that's 24 hours then that's what you do.

(Clerkship rules are different for a few reasons.)

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone seen 3L recruiting movement? I have put out a couple feelers to contacts from last year, but no movement so far.

[Socr4t3s]

Rising 3L who had been planning to attempt to use 3L OCI to get to a firm that has the practice area I want.

Is it "forbidden" (or virtually forbidden / very discouraged, like turning down a federal judge for a 1L summer internship) to back out of an offer you accept, if needed, a few months from now?

Maybe 3L OCI isn't even possible this year - but I wouldn't want to put anything at risk.

I received a 2L summer offer from a major public accounting firm that got substantially scaled back once shit hit the fan. I also know several law students whose post-grad offers were revoked. If they can do it, we can do it too. I wouldn't go into thinking "I'm gonna reneg" but if a great opportunity comes up you have to do what's best for you.

[Anonymous User]

Any updates here? Is it recommended that 3Ls start mass mailing now?

[Anonymous User]

Any updates here? Is it recommended that 3Ls start mass mailing now?

Mass mail always.

[Anonymous User]

I've never mass mailed before so was wondering if you guys do this to specific partners in practice groups youre interested in or to the recruitment groups at the firms?

[IAmMuirMan]

I'm in a real weird situation. COVID delayed my program, which I was already unsure whether or not they'd hire me. Now the program is happening remotely, and I am applying to jobs like a fiend all of a sudden because it seems more and more likely they aren't hiring and I am wasting my time.

Anyway, just venting because I am back in town and way more of my friends have jobs than I imagined. Should I keep applying for gov jobs and non-profits? Pray that they hire me at this mid-sized regional firm? My fall salary is significantly lower than summer, but they are ordering my food on Friday. Not used to that having worked unpaid internships all law school.

[Anonymous User]

Is anyone seeing 3L recruiting movement?

Have any of your career advisors said anything about Class of 2021 entry-level firm hiring?

Any sense of what the environment is in this weird year?

[singer21]

I stumbled upon this thread when researching 3L OCI.

In June, I decided to read this entire thread. I just finished... wow, what a ride.

If anyone who has made their way out of the vale has any advice, particularly with regard to hiring during this pandemic, please let me know!

[Anonymous User]

I second the above post. I’ve been applying as a generalist, my resume screams litigation. I’ve been emailing my apps to the firms recruitment contacts but some firms only want direct apps through their site so I’ve also applied for positions which are seeking attorneys with 1-3 years of experience.

Does anybody have any advice or experience regarding the above? I’ve yet to really see a firm that is specifically seeking a first year associate

[Anonymous User]

May or may not be in the vale as my summer gig was supposed to end with an offer in early September, but have since been told to hold tight and wait while the company works out some internal stuff. Been applying a little bit. One interview, still waiting to hear about a callback, but otherwise no bites.

[Anonymous User]

What a shitty time to be in the vale...

[Anonymous User]

May or may not be in the vale as my summer gig was supposed to end with an offer in early September, but have since been told to hold tight and wait while the company works out some internal stuff. Been applying a little bit. One interview, still waiting to hear about a callback, but otherwise no bites.

Exited the vale! Finally got the offer.

I've also been getting a little action on interviews lately. Don't give up, people. Apply to everything. I've even gotten interviews for stuff that I'm definitely under-qualified for (looking for 1-3 years experience). Just apply to everything that seems even remotely interesting and see what happens

[Anonymous User]

SF firms, including Hogan, BSF, Goodwin, are moving with respect to litigation/L&E. My friend received an offer from one of them recently. BSF is looking for someone to start immediately in general lit. and is surprisingly undemanding with respect to school/rank.