The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:02 pm

Top 40% and law review board member (not that that actually means anything) at a T30 law school, and I can't get a biglaw whiff. Not sure what I'm doing wrong, but I'm definitely missing something.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:54 am

Seems like there has been a different experience for people in T14 vs outside T14 (without top grades) in terms of 3L. This makes sense but I'm not getting any bites either (Top 40% at T30)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:02 pm
Top 40% and law review board member (not that that actually means anything) at a T30 law school, and I can't get a biglaw whiff. Not sure what I'm doing wrong, but I'm definitely missing something.
does top 40% track with BL outcomes at your school? I'd check the ABA disclosures and adjust your expectations if necessary

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:36 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:39 am
I have had three screeners, two CBs, and nothing. Also it seems like the firms are filled up that they have started recruiting 1Ls...
just wondering, what are you stats? and which firms were you looking at? thanks!
Slightly under 3.4 at a T14, journal board at a secondary, and had a SA at a midlaw. I thought I got a chance at biglaw during 2L OCI but did not get anything before my midlaw offer expired in early Feb. Have been applying to all over the place.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:03 am

To those who just want to get any biglaw position, I would just say go for the top NYC shops. It was very hot at least a couple weeks ago. Am sure it's still good.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by 2013 » Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:02 pm
Top 40% and law review board member (not that that actually means anything) at a T30 law school, and I can't get a biglaw whiff. Not sure what I'm doing wrong, but I'm definitely missing something.
You’re at a T30 and not in top 25%. There’s nothing you did wrong, other than not do as well on some exams.

I’ve seen people getting hired during 3L and most of them fall into two buckets:

- T14 around median (or below median if not a V20 or so)
- Top 25% (or better) at non-T14 schools

I think people are overstating how much firms will dip for first year associates (they are dipping more for midlevel laterals, but even still not that much). There are going to be some head scratchers (no honors at a tier 3/4 school getting a job at a V20), but that’s still far from ordinary (and there were people with similar stats getting jobs pre-pandemic too).

Top 40% at a T30 that isn’t a feeder school into biglaw (schools with 40-50%+ in biglaw) isn’t going to really help you out.

You should definitely keep trying, but you aren’t a shoe-in for a 3L hire like some of the other posters on here are.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:31 pm

Does anyone have a good answer for the “Why no SA”? I usually just say hiring was tough and try to emphasize what I did otherwise to boost my skills, but if anyone has a better answer, I’d be super grateful.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:31 pm
Does anyone have a good answer for the “Why no SA”? I usually just say hiring was tough and try to emphasize what I did otherwise to boost my skills, but if anyone has a better answer, I’d be super grateful.
This has been discussed in detail in prior pages of this thread, but I figured I'd share my advice as I also had difficulty with this question. I directly told my interviewers that OCI did not work out for me. I then quickly shifted to talk about how I found ways to remain productive despite striking out. I detailed how I took, and am taking, relevant courses such as Corporations and Secured Transactions. I also talked about how I participated in extracurricular activities such as joining the school's business journal. Lastly, I talked about how I did not let my summer go to waste since I gained valuable experience at my internship, which helped me develop specific skills that I believed are transferrable to other areas of law.

I guess a general guideline is to be initially honest about this omission from your resume, but more importantly to treat it as a platform to discuss the ways you overcame this shortcoming. This is an opportunity to discuss how you still possess ideal qualities for a first-year associate. Of course, partners and associates react differently to your responses. I've had partners immediately ask the "Why no SA" question. I've also had interviews where it never came up. I received offers and rejections from both scenarios. It's all a crapshoot and it really is just a numbers game, but you can improve your odds by crafting a strong narrative. Corporate hiring is crazy busy right now, so you have that going for you.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:43 am

Will hiring start slowing down in November because classes are getting full? Whats the timeline for the rest of the year for biglaw 3L hiring?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by tiredlawstudente » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:45 pm

Hey guys. first time posting here

like many of you, I'm pretty exhausted and despondent from the state of things re joblessness at the moment. I'm targeting the CA and NY market, and have been searching for entry-level openings in every way I can think of: school symplicity, google jobs, linkedin, heck I even went to NALP, narrowed the list of law firms down to those with offices in CA and NY, and just spent 3-4 hours for a day going to every firms' online career page and checking for entry level positions.
I've been searching since August (I had an SA and the firm did me really really dirty. basically no return offer despite me billing three figure hours for them during my nine weeks) and still zip, zilch, nada. I'm aiming for corporate, and have similar corporate law experience.
My stats are 3.5 at a T20, on LRev board and lots of working experience before and during law school. If anyone hear or know of any law firm openings in those markets, please reply to this message. Sorry if this sounds desperate, but I'm in a very very bad place right now, and hope is dwindling. Thanks in advance to all and good luck to everyone.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:51 pm

tiredlawstudente wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:45 pm
Hey guys. first time posting here

like many of you, I'm pretty exhausted and despondent from the state of things re joblessness at the moment. I'm targeting the CA and NY market, and have been searching for entry-level openings in every way I can think of: school symplicity, google jobs, linkedin, heck I even went to NALP, narrowed the list of law firms down to those with offices in CA and NY, and just spent 3-4 hours for a day going to every firms' online career page and checking for entry level positions.
I've been searching since August (I had an SA and the firm did me really really dirty. basically no return offer despite me billing three figure hours for them during my nine weeks) and still zip, zilch, nada. I'm aiming for corporate, and have similar corporate law experience.
My stats are 3.5 at a T20, on LRev board and lots of working experience before and during law school. If anyone hear or know of any law firm openings in those markets, please reply to this message. Sorry if this sounds desperate, but I'm in a very very bad place right now, and hope is dwindling. Thanks in advance to all and good luck to everyone.
Wait, have you not been reaching out directly to recruiters and inquiring about openings? The vast majority of my interview invites came from mass mailing as opposed to applying to publicly available openings.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by 2013 » Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:35 pm

tiredlawstudente wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:45 pm
Hey guys. first time posting here

like many of you, I'm pretty exhausted and despondent from the state of things re joblessness at the moment. I'm targeting the CA and NY market, and have been searching for entry-level openings in every way I can think of: school symplicity, google jobs, linkedin, heck I even went to NALP, narrowed the list of law firms down to those with offices in CA and NY, and just spent 3-4 hours for a day going to every firms' online career page and checking for entry level positions.
I've been searching since August (I had an SA and the firm did me really really dirty. basically no return offer despite me billing three figure hours for them during my nine weeks) and still zip, zilch, nada. I'm aiming for corporate, and have similar corporate law experience.
My stats are 3.5 at a T20, on LRev board and lots of working experience before and during law school. If anyone hear or know of any law firm openings in those markets, please reply to this message. Sorry if this sounds desperate, but I'm in a very very bad place right now, and hope is dwindling. Thanks in advance to all and good luck to everyone.
A few firms have entry level corporate positions. I think I saw WilmerHale NY/DC/Boston and Gunderson NY recently.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by tiredlawstudente » Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:42 pm

2013 wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:35 pm
tiredlawstudente wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:45 pm
Hey guys. first time posting here

like many of you, I'm pretty exhausted and despondent from the state of things re joblessness at the moment. I'm targeting the CA and NY market, and have been searching for entry-level openings in every way I can think of: school symplicity, google jobs, linkedin, heck I even went to NALP, narrowed the list of law firms down to those with offices in CA and NY, and just spent 3-4 hours for a day going to every firms' online career page and checking for entry level positions.
I've been searching since August (I had an SA and the firm did me really really dirty. basically no return offer despite me billing three figure hours for them during my nine weeks) and still zip, zilch, nada. I'm aiming for corporate, and have similar corporate law experience.
My stats are 3.5 at a T20, on LRev board and lots of working experience before and during law school. If anyone hear or know of any law firm openings in those markets, please reply to this message. Sorry if this sounds desperate, but I'm in a very very bad place right now, and hope is dwindling. Thanks in advance to all and good luck to everyone.
A few firms have entry level corporate positions. I think I saw WilmerHale NY/DC/Boston and Gunderson NY recently.
Applied to both, but CA office. got to screener with one then rejected and got to callback with other and also rejected. thanks anyway, I appreciate it

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:35 pm

Ya, you all should be applying to firms that don't have jobs posted. I got all of my 3L offers from firms without publicly listed spots.

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:55 pm

Anyone still actively applying? Is after the holidays a thing?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by njdevils2626 » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:55 pm
Anyone still actively applying? Is after the holidays a thing?
I'm a fifth year now, but I was in this position as a 3L and actually interviewed with 5 firms during my winter break and got both my offers from those interviews. No clue if it'll be similar this year, but winter break isn't a dead zone for firms (though obviously not in the week between Christmas and New Year)

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:55 pm
Anyone still actively applying? Is after the holidays a thing?
Yes, but most firms I applied to last week told me they are on hold now... the others have been ghosting me. I had a few firms reaching out to me in Sep and Oct, much more movement back at that time

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:15 pm

Just as a data point, my 3L friend got an offer from Sidley Austin this week

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:48 pm

just curious, T14? and decent grades?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:15 pm
Just as a data point, my 3L friend got an offer from Sidley Austin this week
For a firm that started recruiting 3Ls in July, it moves surprisingly slow ...


Just FYI, Allen & Overy is hiring 3Ls for its banking/finance/CM groups

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:03 pm

3L offer secured & elated to be leaving the vale. 3 screeners, 2 cb, 1 offer & rescinded application with 1 firm. Biglaw hiring sucks for those outside the t14, but just keep going. You only need 1 offer

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:15 pm

Inside source @ Sidley Austin said (in Sep) they wont even look at 3L apps until their entire summer class has responded. that probably explains the slow cycle.
Davis Polk Menlo Park also seeking 3L for corporate group. email recruiter if you dont see listing online.
Latham hiring 3Ls in multiple offices and multiple groups. check their website

Finally secured offered. 10 screeners, 5 cbs, and 2 offers. Things seemed bleak and impossible (was terrible at interviewing) but I'm very glad it pulled through. Good luck to all!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:58 am

Happy to say I am leaving the Vale! 3L offer secured after countless apps, 3 screeners, 3 callbacks, one strange post-callback-interview-to-rejection, and 1 offer. T30 with ~top 20% grades and strong experience yet no SA. Resilience is one hell of a tool, and I really enjoyed the people I talked to at the firm I’m joining, so I couldn’t be happier. Best of luck, y’all!

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:04 pm

I had some personal change recently and am considering looking at a different market from the one I am doing my 2L summer in. What are the key considerations and what are the realistic outcomes?

Namely - does it matter if I have a 2L SA position and how school dependent is this process?

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Re: The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls)

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:15 pm
Inside source @ Sidley Austin said (in Sep) they wont even look at 3L apps until their entire summer class has responded. that probably explains the slow cycle.
Davis Polk Menlo Park also seeking 3L for corporate group. email recruiter if you dont see listing online.
Latham hiring 3Ls in multiple offices and multiple groups. check their website

Finally secured offered. 10 screeners, 5 cbs, and 2 offers. Things seemed bleak and impossible (was terrible at interviewing) but I'm very glad it pulled through. Good luck to all!
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I know multiple people that got 3L offers and accepted in August/September before I had even accepted my offer from the summer

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