Law School Discussion Forums
https://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/
https://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=192733
Uh...I've heard literally the exact opposite about this one. I mean, they're all going to be V100 NY firms to an extent, but from the associates/summers I know who are actually there, I've heard the exact opposite.Nynaeve wrote:Can we compile a list of these firms for the 2L's?
Cadwalader NY, Schulte NY, and Kaye Scholer NY immediately come to mind.
For real? Because every associate I know there has the shittiest QOL of any of my friends in BigLaw. 9am to 2-3am for literally months on end and the fucking partners don't appreciate nothing.Machine Spirit wrote:Uh...I've heard literally the exact opposite about this one. I mean, they're all going to be V100 NY firms to an extent, but from the associates/summers I know who are actually there, I've heard the exact opposite.Nynaeve wrote:Can we compile a list of these firms for the 2L's?
Cadwalader NY, Schulte NY, and Kaye Scholer NY immediately come to mind.
The other two (Cadwalader and Schulte) immediately came to mind. Dechert and White & Case as well.
Why these?Anonymous User wrote:Cleary Gottlieb NY, Shearman & Sterling NY, Skadden LA
The people at Schulte seem to be awful, perhaps that's why.Anonymous User wrote:A lot of my CBs, regardless of V ranking, did not do well on that AmLaw list. Confirmation that I am a terrible interviewer?
Also, why does Schulte get a bad rep? Are the complaints similar to those about Cadwalader?
maybe I should go for a second trip... I really liked all the people I met.Anonymous User wrote:The people at Schulte seem to be awful, perhaps that's why.Anonymous User wrote:A lot of my CBs, regardless of V ranking, did not do well on that AmLaw list. Confirmation that I am a terrible interviewer?
Also, why does Schulte get a bad rep? Are the complaints similar to those about Cadwalader?
+1Machine Spirit wrote:Uh...I've heard literally the exact opposite about this one. I mean, they're all going to be V100 NY firms to an extent, but from the associates/summers I know who are actually there, I've heard the exact opposite.Nynaeve wrote:Can we compile a list of these firms for the 2L's?
Cadwalader NY, Schulte NY, and Kaye Scholer NY immediately come to mind.
The other two (Cadwalader and Schulte) immediately came to mind. Dechert and White & Case as well.
Any V10 is going to have poor QOL, to the extent any particular K&E associate has it worse even than that, it's almost always because of failure to manage workload under the free market system. Unfortunately, many associates don't know that you're free to say no to work, and a lot of associates take way too much on.Snape wrote:Kirkland Chicago has a pretty bad rep for work-life balance. I know one associate who claims to not have had a day off in his first 2 years...I know many people who really don't like life at KE Chicago.
I was at KS last summer and most of the associates seemed pretty upbeat, and everyone seems to be really friendly with each other. However, I'd guess that there are some miserable people and they just chose not to interact much with the SA's. I'd also bet there's a big difference in the opinions of the people who came in during the last few years (laterals and from the SA program) and those that have been around for a while (minus those on the recruiting/events committees).kwais wrote:+1Machine Spirit wrote:Uh...I've heard literally the exact opposite about this one. I mean, they're all going to be V100 NY firms to an extent, but from the associates/summers I know who are actually there, I've heard the exact opposite.Nynaeve wrote:Can we compile a list of these firms for the 2L's?
Cadwalader NY, Schulte NY, and Kaye Scholer NY immediately come to mind.
The other two (Cadwalader and Schulte) immediately came to mind. Dechert and White & Case as well.
Heard this too. Supposedly KS has gone to great lengths to change things since their well-publicized poor handling of recession times.
have talked to many laterals, formerly at V10s, now at lower ranked firms who say that every day of their life is different since they left Skadden or Cravath or whatever. Not saying anyone is leaving at 5 and is under no stress, but this "they are all the same" meme seems made up by V10ers who want to think that there was no downside to choosing their firmFresh Prince wrote:IMO, there's no such thing as an NY big firm with good QOL. If the firm has the work, they will work you just a hard as they work associates at Cleary.
I think the point is that if you're going to work for a big NYC firm, you've basically already made your decision that work-life balance/QOL/whatever you want to call it/etc. is not your highest priority, so you'd have to be an idiot to choose Kaye Scholer or something similar over V10.kwais wrote:have talked to many laterals, formerly at V10s, now at lower ranked firms who say that every day of their life is different since they left Skadden or Cravath or whatever. Not saying anyone is leaving at 5 and is under no stress, but this "they are all the same" meme seems made up by V10ers who want to think that there was no downside to choosing their firmFresh Prince wrote:IMO, there's no such thing as an NY big firm with good QOL. If the firm has the work, they will work you just a hard as they work associates at Cleary.
Hidden insult aside, this is interesting to read. My question is, and I mean no offense to those you spoke to, how much of that is a function of the quantity of work a firm has? My point above was that if a firm, no matter low ranked, has the work to make each associate bill 2700 hours, they'll mak them do that. Is their lifestyle different because they is less work, or genuinely lower expectations from the firm itself?kwais wrote:have talked to many laterals, formerly at V10s, now at lower ranked firms who say that every day of their life is different since they left Skadden or Cravath or whatever. Not saying anyone is leaving at 5 and is under no stress, but this "they are all the same" meme seems made up by V10ers who want to think that there was no downside to choosing their firmFresh Prince wrote:IMO, there's no such thing as an NY big firm with good QOL. If the firm has the work, they will work you just a hard as they work associates at Cleary.
mostly agree, but I imagine that small differences in culture and hours can feel huge when you are in the middle of it all. But the idea that these considerations are likely outweighed by career building issues is credited.RVP11 wrote:I think the point is that if you're going to work for a big NYC firm, you've basically already made your decision that work-life balance/QOL/whatever you want to call it/etc. is not your highest priority, so you'd have to be an idiot to choose Kaye Scholer or something similar over V10.kwais wrote:have talked to many laterals, formerly at V10s, now at lower ranked firms who say that every day of their life is different since they left Skadden or Cravath or whatever. Not saying anyone is leaving at 5 and is under no stress, but this "they are all the same" meme seems made up by V10ers who want to think that there was no downside to choosing their firmFresh Prince wrote:IMO, there's no such thing as an NY big firm with good QOL. If the firm has the work, they will work you just a hard as they work associates at Cleary.
not entirely sure, however, I suspect, from what I was told, that some places that have plenty of work still want to cultivate a certain culture for the sake of attracting and retaining a certain type of talent. I don't think that is entirely unfathomable and when we step back from the biglaw mentality, it makes all the sense in the world that you will lose some excellent people if you burn them outFresh Prince wrote:Hidden insult aside, this is interesting to read. My question is, and I mean no offense to those you spoke to, how much of that is a function of the quantity of work a firm has? My point above was that if a firm, no matter low ranked, has the work to make each associate bill 2700 hours, they'll mak them do that. Is their lifestyle different because they is less work, or genuinely lower expectations from the firm itself?kwais wrote:have talked to many laterals, formerly at V10s, now at lower ranked firms who say that every day of their life is different since they left Skadden or Cravath or whatever. Not saying anyone is leaving at 5 and is under no stress, but this "they are all the same" meme seems made up by V10ers who want to think that there was no downside to choosing their firmFresh Prince wrote:IMO, there's no such thing as an NY big firm with good QOL. If the firm has the work, they will work you just a hard as they work associates at Cleary.
Note: I am talking about only NY firms.