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I have no practice group preference, or personality preference - which is a better firm?

They're both equally mediocre.

Shulte

Fresh Prince wrote:They're both equally mediocre.

yes, 2 vault firms are "equally mediocre."

Did you get a Stroock offer? Mind if I ask when?

Hold out for an offer from somewhere else (I say this as someone who only has one offer right now, and it's from one of those two firms).

Anonymous User wrote:Hold out for an offer from somewhere else (I say this as someone who only has one offer right now, and it's from one of those two firms).

Why all the hate? They are both in the top 80 of vault rankings....

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Hold out for an offer from somewhere else (I say this as someone who only has one offer right now, and it's from one of those two firms).

Why all the hate? They are both in the top 80 of vault rankings....

My guess would be that they are both known for their structured finance and investment management groups, but aren't as diversified or top-tier as a Fried Frank, Shearman, or Bingham, let alone a Skadden or DPW. OP presumably has 28 days with these two offers and could try to leverage them into CBs at other firms.

LawIdiot86 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Hold out for an offer from somewhere else (I say this as someone who only has one offer right now, and it's from one of those two firms).

Why all the hate? They are both in the top 80 of vault rankings....

My guess would be that they are both known for their structured finance and investment management groups, but aren't as diversified or top-tier as a Fried Frank, Shearman, or Bingham, let alone a Skadden or DPW. OP presumably has 28 days with these two offers and could try to leverage them into CBs at other firms.

Use offers to leverage callbacks? How does one do that? Strook and Schulte are both known as not particularly pleasant places to work, and as previously mentioned their narrow specialization means that they are more susceptible to market fluctuations.

Anonymous User wrote:

LawIdiot86 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Hold out for an offer from somewhere else (I say this as someone who only has one offer right now, and it's from one of those two firms).

Why all the hate? They are both in the top 80 of vault rankings....

My guess would be that they are both known for their structured finance and investment management groups, but aren't as diversified or top-tier as a Fried Frank, Shearman, or Bingham, let alone a Skadden or DPW. OP presumably has 28 days with these two offers and could try to leverage them into CBs at other firms.

Use offers to leverage callbacks? How does one do that? Strook and Schulte are both known as not particularly pleasant places to work, and as previously mentioned their narrow specialization means that they are more susceptible to market fluctuations.

You call the recruiter and say "I screened with you two weeks ago, I now have an offer from Stroock, I really want you." If they'd consider you or just don't want to let Stroock get someone they like, they'll offer you a CB.

LawIdiot86 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

LawIdiot86 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:
Why all the hate? They are both in the top 80 of vault rankings....

My guess would be that they are both known for their structured finance and investment management groups, but aren't as diversified or top-tier as a Fried Frank, Shearman, or Bingham, let alone a Skadden or DPW. OP presumably has 28 days with these two offers and could try to leverage them into CBs at other firms.

Use offers to leverage callbacks? How does one do that? Strook and Schulte are both known as not particularly pleasant places to work, and as previously mentioned their narrow specialization means that they are more susceptible to market fluctuations.

You call the recruiter and say "I screened with you two weeks ago, I now have an offer from Stroock, I really want you." If they'd consider you or just don't want to let Stroock get someone they like, they'll offer you a CB.

Is there really any chance of that working? Like, do you know anyone for whom it worked?

Anonymous User wrote:

LawIdiot86 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

LawIdiot86 wrote:
My guess would be that they are both known for their structured finance and investment management groups, but aren't as diversified or top-tier as a Fried Frank, Shearman, or Bingham, let alone a Skadden or DPW. OP presumably has 28 days with these two offers and could try to leverage them into CBs at other firms.

Use offers to leverage callbacks? How does one do that? Strook and Schulte are both known as not particularly pleasant places to work, and as previously mentioned their narrow specialization means that they are more susceptible to market fluctuations.

You call the recruiter and say "I screened with you two weeks ago, I now have an offer from Stroock, I really want you." If they'd consider you or just don't want to let Stroock get someone they like, they'll offer you a CB.

Is there really any chance of that working? Like, do you know anyone for whom it worked?

It worked for me at the CB to offer stage, not the screener to CB stage, but I did have a particularly weak profile and my CSO said it would have worked if I had more offers earlier.

Anonymous User wrote: Is there really any chance of that working? Like, do you know anyone for whom it worked?

It's not gonna turn a definite no into a yes, but pointing out you have offers and a timeline can help. It's impossible to know if they were going to get a CB/offer regardless, though. Maybe the recruiter was picking up the phone to call.

LawIdiot86 wrote:You call the recruiter and say "I screened with you two weeks ago, I now have an offer from Stroock, I really want you." If they'd consider you or just don't want to let Stroock get someone they like, they'll offer you a CB.

This doesn't make sense to me. I genuinely don't think that a firm will hire someone to deny another firm that person. If they'd consider you anyway then mentioning an offer from another firm wouldn't help.

Fresh Prince wrote:They're both equally mediocre.

You're a fucking tool.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Is there really any chance of that working? Like, do you know anyone for whom it worked?

It's not gonna turn a definite no into a yes, but pointing out you have offers and a timeline can help. It's impossible to know if they were going to get a CB/offer regardless, though. Maybe the recruiter was picking up the phone to call.

I suspect it will help more often than hurt. Generally when you hear someone else is interested in something you're considering, it makes you more likely to select it. Two exceptions are when you're mostly looking for a reason not to select it, or when the person or group who selected it is someone or something you don't think much of. There's not much you can do about these potential issues if they exist, and if they do you're probably going to lose out. As such, I say go for it.

Isn't Stroock more of a lifestyle firm? I'd probably take that over Schulte. Then again, I really liked the Schulte people I met.

Also, don't understand the hate here. Only TLS will look down on people taking offers from V100s that pay NYC market.

shock259 wrote:Only TLS will look down on people taking offers from V100s that pay NYC market.

This.

letsdoit wrote:

shock259 wrote:Only TLS will look down on people taking offers from V100s that pay NYC market.

This.

No hate. They're mediocre. They're not stellar. Stellar would be Davis Polk or Debevoise.

If Schulte and Stroock were the best offers you could field, you should've buckled up during 1L. After all, the phrase "Stroock out" precedes TLS. No need to be overly sensitive.

As firms, they're not in particularly good shape. But one is not materially better than the other. Hence my original statement.

HeavenWood wrote:

Fresh Prince wrote:They're both equally mediocre.

You're a fucking tool.

Csb

Fresh Prince wrote:

HeavenWood wrote:

Fresh Prince wrote:They're both equally mediocre.

You're a fucking tool.

Csb

If you think a typical Stroock starting associate is going to be in a vastly different position from a typical V10 starting associate ten years down the road, you're sorely kidding yourself.

...

^Far superior if you stick with the firm. Definitely better if you want to leave the legal field entirely. More flexibility if you want to stay in law. Still, for the typical person who laterals out in 3-5 years, there isn't that huge of a difference. I'm not saying I would recommend Strook/Schulte over a V10 for most people in the very beginning, but as far as lifetime legal career goes, you're not losing THAT much, however much it may stroke your ego to think otherwise.

...

Fresh Prince wrote:

HeavenWood wrote:^Far superior if you stick with the firm. Definitely better if you want to leave the legal field entirely. More flexibility if you want to stay in law. Still, for the typical person who laterals out in 3-5 years, there isn't that huge of a difference. I'm not saying I would recommend Strook/Schulte over a V10 for most people in the very beginning, but as far as lifetime legal career goes, you're not losing THAT much, however much it may stroke your ego to think otherwise.

I didn't invite the comparison in the first place. I just said they are mediocre, which they are. You are the one with the injured ego.

And you can believe the last sentence of your post if that'll help you heal that bruised ego.

Ego's not bruised, breh. I'm not even interested in NYC biglawl, so vault rankings are pretty much meaningless for me.