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Firm has extended an SA offer, last year they hired 4 of their 5 SA's in this office. Can I ask them what happened with the 5th SA or is this imprudent/improper in some way?

you can ask. they won't rescind the offer for asking questions and now that you have the offer the power is pretty much in your hands. when you accept the offer, the offer is in their hands.

also, if you have multiple offers you should feel even more comfortable asking these types of Qs

Anonymous User wrote:Firm has extended an SA offer, last year they hired 4 of their 5 SA's in this office. Can I ask them what happened with the 5th SA or is this imprudent/improper in some way?

I wouldn't ask a question like that.

Yes, you can certainly ask. Maybe phrase it like, "For what reasons have you no-offered summer associates in the past?" or something like that. You may not get a straightforward response though.

anon168 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Firm has extended an SA offer, last year they hired 4 of their 5 SA's in this office. Can I ask them what happened with the 5th SA or is this imprudent/improper in some way?

I wouldn't ask a question like that.

Me either.

EvilClinton wrote:

anon168 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Firm has extended an SA offer, last year they hired 4 of their 5 SA's in this office. Can I ask them what happened with the 5th SA or is this imprudent/improper in some way?

I wouldn't ask a question like that.

Me either.

You can ask if the firm typically offers summer associates full time employment and if yes, is there usually enough space for all of them? Or you could also ask whether last year's summer associates are returning to work full time after graduation or something. See what they say.

EvilClinton wrote:

anon168 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Firm has extended an SA offer, last year they hired 4 of their 5 SA's in this office. Can I ask them what happened with the 5th SA or is this imprudent/improper in some way?

I wouldn't ask a question like that.

Me either.

You can and you should. Years ago I asked this of the firm I'm now with (as a real live associate!) and am glad I did.

Understand, though, that you'll probably get a simple answer like "work product" or "bad fit" that doesn't tell you much. But you should go to a different firm if they are awkward about it or if they admit that there wasn't enough work to go around to hire the entire class (which seems to be the problem at Paul Hastings, for example).

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Lawquacious wrote:

romothesavior wrote:Yes, you can certainly ask. Maybe phrase it like, "For what reasons have you no-offered summer associates in the past?" or something like that. You may not get a straightforward response though.

Why does it matter to you? BTW, "Romo the Savior" is one of the biggest a-hole douche bags on this site. You earned it Romo. Along with PatrickD and UCLAtransfer (only bigger douche bags on TLS). Congrats.

QFP

You are drunk.

Lawquacious wrote:

romothesavior wrote:Yes, you can certainly ask. Maybe phrase it like, "For what reasons have you no-offered summer associates in the past?" or something like that. You may not get a straightforward response though.

Why does it matter to you? BTW, "Romo the Savior" is one of the biggest a-hole douche bags on this site. You earned it Romo. Along with PatrickD and UCLAtransfer (only bigger douche bags on TLS). Congrats.

You seem like one of the biggest a-hole douche bags on this site.

Uhh... what? I know you were drunk, and I know I'm a d-bag, but top three d-bags on TLS? That's a bold claim.

RVP11 wrote:

EvilClinton wrote:

anon168 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Firm has extended an SA offer, last year they hired 4 of their 5 SA's in this office. Can I ask them what happened with the 5th SA or is this imprudent/improper in some way?

I wouldn't ask a question like that.

Me either.

You can and you should. Years ago I asked this of the firm I'm now with (as a real live associate!) and am glad I did.

Understand, though, that you'll probably get a simple answer like "work product" or "bad fit" that doesn't tell you much. But you should go to a different firm if they are awkward about it or if they admit that there wasn't enough work to go around to hire the entire class (which seems to be the problem at Paul Hastings, for example).

Credited. I also asked. It can and often should be dispositive if you have multiple offers.

Interested in this as well.

I am primarily interviewing with midlaw in my local secondary market. I have an offer with a firm that would be great to work for, but I have heard that they don't hire SA's with the intent of bringing them on as associates, but as labor for the summer. While they do hire out of their SA pool, even if they anticipated no first year associate hiring they would still bring on SA's.

Curious what a delicate way to come right out and ask this question would be. Also interested in other questions or things to ask at this stage would be.

As others have intimated, you can and should ask all questions pertinent to you in making your decision.

FWIW, back in the day when I did OCI, in addition to speaking with people in recruiting departments, I asked firms to give me a list of associates/partners (or whatever) to contact concerning my questions. That way, I could get individual perspectives without worrying whether I'd get an offer. Moreover, I asked questions about firm health, business, etc., because the economy was still reeling at that time.

There's no reason you shouldn't ask lots of questions, as this decision will be one of the most important in your early career.

how do find out this info? how many offers they gave to their SAs?

NALP form

BeachedBrit wrote:NALP form

The new NALP forms are fucking misleading. The forms used to state "Number of 20xx Summer 2Ls" and "Number of offers made to summer 2L associates." Now, the form reads "Number of 20xx Summer 2Ls considered for associate offers" and "Number of offers made to summer 2L associates."

LOL at this profession.

Big Shrimpin wrote:

BeachedBrit wrote:NALP form

The new NALP forms are fucking misleading. The forms used to state "Number of 20xx Summer 2Ls" and "Number of offers made to summer 2L associates." Now, the form reads "Number of 20xx Summer 2Ls considered for associate offers" and "Number of offers made to summer 2L associates."

LOL at this profession.

But it still gives you the number of 2L SAs so its pretty easy to figure out.

Veyron wrote:

Big Shrimpin wrote:

BeachedBrit wrote:NALP form

The new NALP forms are fucking misleading. The forms used to state "Number of 20xx Summer 2Ls" and "Number of offers made to summer 2L associates." Now, the form reads "Number of 20xx Summer 2Ls considered for associate offers" and "Number of offers made to summer 2L associates."

LOL at this profession.

But it still gives you the number of 2L SAs so its pretty easy to figure out.

Good call.

Didn't catch that (haven't really needed to analyze the new forms), but still, you have to LOL at the attempted trickery.

Lawquacious wrote:

romothesavior wrote:Yes, you can certainly ask. Maybe phrase it like, "For what reasons have you no-offered summer associates in the past?" or something like that. You may not get a straightforward response though.

Why does it matter to you? BTW, "Romo the Savior" is one of the biggest a-hole douche bags on this site. You earned it Romo. Along with PatrickD and UCLAtransfer (only bigger douche bags on TLS). Congrats.

My first unprovoked call-out on TLS. I may just shed a tear.

(Shockingly, I know,) I agree with romo 100% on this one. No harm in asking, but definitely ask in a generic way, not "Hurr Durr. What happened to that one guy last year?"

romothesavior wrote:Uhh... what? I know you were drunk, and I know I'm a d-bag, but top three d-bags on TLS? That's a bold claim.

Also this.

Susman callback? Please pm me.

What I really want to know is what type of jobs people typically exit the firm into. I assume it's okay to ask this after receiving an offer, but I don't suppose it's something I should bring up before that, right?