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Does anyone know what the odds are of getting permanent offers from Fed gov't if you do a 2L summer internship with them?
E.g. FTC (DC), Fed Reserve Board (DC), Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp office of gen counsel (DC).

Are the offer rates way lower than for firms? Is it risky to split 2L summer between gov't and a firm (e.g. does it signal you are not sufficiently enamored of the firm, since you aren't doing a whole summer with them)?

Thanks.

I don't have data, but I would guess it is basically a 0% offer rate. Government agencies very rarely hire straight out grads these days. Also, most federal agencies are still on hiring freezes. The best way to get a permanent job in a federal agency is to apply for the Honors program, if that agency has one. I interned at a federal agency for 1L and they had hired a grand total of I believe 4 lawyers in the last 5 years, 2 lateralled from firms, one was Honors, and the other had clerked. DO NOT TAKE A GOV INTERNSHIP EXPECTING ANY PERMANENT JOB FROM IT.

Darn.
Thanks!

-OP

Yep, absurdly low. Not unheard of though. No harm in asking places you apply to.

fyi the Fed Reserve Board is not technically government so their's may be higher...and the FTC (DC) typically takes 8 summers...and usually has spots for 3-4 full-time offers...so it can happen

Is this all really true? I know historically that places like the PBGC hired full-time if the intern did a good job. Last year they didn't because of budget constraints. But is there a chance they will resume again after this year?

Anonymous User wrote:Is this all really true? I know historically that places like the PBGC hired full-time if the intern did a good job. Last year they didn't because of budget constraints. But is there a chance they will resume again after this year?

That's unlikely. Unless the agency is self-funded and can set its own funding (like the FDIC), then its hiring is controlled by either Congressional appropriation (like the SEC) or Congressional fee limits (like the PBGC). Congress seems highly unlikely to increase the fee charged to already-underwater pensions and it isn't like that industry is growing, so PBGC's funding level will probably be static. Also, remember that agencies used to hire interns because it wasn't easy to lure away young associates from law firms. Given the layoffs and flattening of the law firm pyramid, there are a lot more experience lawyers looking to jump into government.

Of my five friends who entered agency honors programs, one was magna at a T14 and turned down firms after 2L to do in-house, one had worked for an agency before law school, one was interned at an agency, one had summered at a V10 and one had done PI and turned down 2L SAs. I suspect someone with prior WE or a V25 with relevant coursework is better positioned than a prior summer intern at most agencies.

It's also worth remembering that most agencies do school year internships in addition to their summer programs, so you're really competing against everyone who worked for the agency during 1L summer, 2L fall and spring, and 2L summer, if you're trying to play the intern card.

Congressional fee limits? The PBGC is funded by insurance premiums form employers that sponsor insured pension plans, investments it makes, and from pension funds it takes over.

Also, places like the GAO explicitly say on their website that they primarily recruit into their honors program from law students who have summered there the year before.

Anonymous User wrote:Congressional fee limits? The PBGC is funded by insurance premiums form employers that sponsor insured pension plans, investments it makes, and from pension funds it takes over.

Also, places like the GAO explicitly say on their website that they primarily recruit into their honors program from law students who have summered there the year before.

See http://www.pbgc.gov/about/how-pbgc-operates.html

PBGC receives no funds from general tax revenues. Operations are financed by insurance premiums set by Congress and paid by sponsors of defined benefit plans, investment income, assets from pension plans trusteed by PBGC, and recoveries from the companies formerly responsible for the plans.

The GAO had an honors program last year and then canceled it after doing screeners when their funding was cut. They also had a 15% budget cut that resulted in a number of layoffs.

LawIdiot86 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Congressional fee limits? The PBGC is funded by insurance premiums form employers that sponsor insured pension plans, investments it makes, and from pension funds it takes over.

Also, places like the GAO explicitly say on their website that they primarily recruit into their honors program from law students who have summered there the year before.

See http://www.pbgc.gov/about/how-pbgc-operates.html

PBGC receives no funds from general tax revenues. Operations are financed by insurance premiums set by Congress and paid by sponsors of defined benefit plans, investment income, assets from pension plans trusteed by PBGC, and recoveries from the companies formerly responsible for the plans.

The GAO had an honors program last year and then canceled it after doing screeners when their funding was cut. They also had a 15% budget cut that resulted in a number of layoffs.

Got it. Thanks for the info.

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FWIW I heard the Federal Reserve does actually hire it's 2Ls, at least some. I heard it like third hand. It makes sense because it's not an agency and it's budget isn't controlled by congress.

FTC probably takes around 20ish people after 2L and has space to hire two or three of them.

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DOJ hiring is up from last year. Is this a good sign?

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1. EPA - Awaiting response from them, and I called and they basically said you don't get hired if you do the summer program (also they pay shit).

2. GAO - Not only do you have a *substantial advantage* over other applicants to an entry-level position, was told that they've made plans to hire this years summers. They've factored in what positions will be open summer 2014 for those who got offers for summer 2013 honors. This, of course, assumes you do your job and they like you. They made it abundantly clear during interview and over the phone that they are streamlining their hiring and are basically ONLY hiring from their summer honors program.

**Also, GAO pays FAR MORE than EPA for summer honors**

Anonymous User wrote:FTC probably takes around 20ish people after 2L and has space to hire two or three of them.

This is stupid. I summered in the Bureau of Competition and hiring is pretty consistent from year to year. About 10 2Ls year-to-year, 5-6 come in full-time and I know a couple others who were offered but did not accept. Offer rates are actually much closer to a law firm than your typical government agency.

1. EPA - Awaiting response from them, and I called and they basically said you don't get hired if you do the summer program (also they pay shit).

2. GAO - Not only do you have a *substantial advantage* over other applicants to an entry-level position, was told that they've made plans to hire this years summers. They've factored in what positions will be open summer 2014 for those who got offers for summer 2013 honors. This, of course, assumes you do your job and they like you. They made it abundantly clear during interview and over the phone that they are streamlining their hiring and are basically ONLY hiring from their summer honors program.

**Also, GAO pays FAR MORE than EPA for summer honors**

I posted the above...

Just wanted to update --

EPA is hiring around 7 summer 2013, and GAO is hiring 5 summers.

Tag.

So how about state government situation? Say SF DA's office, do they offer permanent job to 2L summer intern?

Anonymous User wrote:Tag.

So how about state government situation? Say SF DA's office, do they offer permanent job to 2L summer intern?

I got an offer after a 2L summer at a state AG, but generally they do a whole new 3L hiring process. They had tons more 2Ls than they could ever offer and probably more than half of the 2Ls were unpaid.

Just received a 2nd round interview at the PBGC. Anyone have any good info on them?

Just received a 2nd round interview at the PBGC. Anyone have any good info on them?

Interviewed with them at OCI, and the work really doesn't seem that interesting, in all honesty.

What about FTC bureau of consumer protection? How many offers there?

What about DOL? They came to my campus to do interviews, so I guess that means they are hiring for the honors program. But the flip side is, they don't restrict the program to former summers. I thought I'd have a good shot with a 2L summer internship at a regional DOL office, a really strong labor resume, a labor and employment heavy courseload, and pretty good grades at a T14, but all of the doom and gloom here is making me think I might as well forget it. But they wouldn't be doing on-campus interviewing if they weren't hiring, right?