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Thoughts on Susman?

it's a great place to work, but it takes a certain personality to thrive there. you need to be the type of person that isn't afraid of ridicule, and isn't afraid to put their name to something, even if they aren't sure it's correct. the culture there is all about taking personal ownership of your work, from the most detailed memo to the simplest question on an online forum.

I have an interview this week. Any tips?

Anonymous User wrote:I have an interview this week. Any tips?

A screener?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I have an interview this week. Any tips?

A screener?

Yea, OCI doesn't start until monday.

Which office do you have a screener for?

Anonymous User wrote:Which office do you have a screener for?

at my school, they just send attorneys from Houston. You indicate the offices you're interested in.

Anonymous User wrote:Thoughts on Susman?

do you want to take depos in your first year? do you want to argue motions/hearings in court in your first year? do you want to be paid more than any other associates in biglaw?

If you are someone who isn't afraid of being thrown right into the deep end as a young litigator and being given responsibility equal to junior partners at most biglaw firms then there isn't a better law firm in my opinion. The firm is also very democratic. Every lawyers including associates gets a vote on what cases the firm takes and what cases the firm doesn't take. Every lawyer also decides who gets hired. All 5 offices are pretty integrated and on many of the larger cases, you have lawyers from multiple offices working together.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Thoughts on Susman?

do you want to take depos in your first year? do you want to argue motions/hearings in court in your first year? do you want to be paid more than any other associates in biglaw?

If you are someone who isn't afraid of being thrown right into the deep end as a young litigator and being given responsibility equal to junior partners at most biglaw firms then there isn't a better law firm in my opinion. The firm is also very democratic. Every lawyers including associates gets a vote on what cases the firm takes and what cases the firm doesn't take. Every lawyer also decides who gets hired. All 5 offices are pretty integrated and on many of the larger cases, you have lawyers from multiple offices working together.

How much money are we talking? And what kind of hours are required?

It's just a law firm that loves to hype itself. They're successful and do more plaintiff's work, too.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Thoughts on Susman?

do you want to take depos in your first year? do you want to argue motions/hearings in court in your first year? do you want to be paid more than any other associates in biglaw?

If you are someone who isn't afraid of being thrown right into the deep end as a young litigator and being given responsibility equal to junior partners at most biglaw firms then there isn't a better law firm in my opinion. The firm is also very democratic. Every lawyers including associates gets a vote on what cases the firm takes and what cases the firm doesn't take. Every lawyer also decides who gets hired. All 5 offices are pretty integrated and on many of the larger cases, you have lawyers from multiple offices working together.

How much money are we talking? And what kind of hours are required?

I've heard people bill 3k a year. I've also heard those numbers are inflated and that 2500-2700 is more accurate. still, a ton of hours.

Bonuses range from 40k to 100k.

nonprofit-prophet wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Thoughts on Susman?

do you want to take depos in your first year? do you want to argue motions/hearings in court in your first year? do you want to be paid more than any other associates in biglaw?

If you are someone who isn't afraid of being thrown right into the deep end as a young litigator and being given responsibility equal to junior partners at most biglaw firms then there isn't a better law firm in my opinion. The firm is also very democratic. Every lawyers including associates gets a vote on what cases the firm takes and what cases the firm doesn't take. Every lawyer also decides who gets hired. All 5 offices are pretty integrated and on many of the larger cases, you have lawyers from multiple offices working together.

How much money are we talking? And what kind of hours are required?

I've heard people bill 3k a year. I've also heard those numbers are inflated and that 2500-2700 is more accurate. still, a ton of hours.

Bonuses range from 40k to 100k.

So roughly Wachtell-type hours for Wachtell-type pay?

Anonymous User wrote:
So roughly Wachtell-type hours for Wachtell-type pay?

Yea pretty much. But if you work in Texas, you get super low COL with Susman

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Thoughts on Susman?

do you want to take depos in your first year? do you want to argue motions/hearings in court in your first year? do you want to be paid more than any other associates in biglaw?

If you are someone who isn't afraid of being thrown right into the deep end as a young litigator and being given responsibility equal to junior partners at most biglaw firms then there isn't a better law firm in my opinion. The firm is also very democratic. Every lawyers including associates gets a vote on what cases the firm takes and what cases the firm doesn't take. Every lawyer also decides who gets hired. All 5 offices are pretty integrated and on many of the larger cases, you have lawyers from multiple offices working together.

This is so wrong.

nonprofit-prophet wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Thoughts on Susman?

do you want to take depos in your first year? do you want to argue motions/hearings in court in your first year? do you want to be paid more than any other associates in biglaw?

If you are someone who isn't afraid of being thrown right into the deep end as a young litigator and being given responsibility equal to junior partners at most biglaw firms then there isn't a better law firm in my opinion. The firm is also very democratic. Every lawyers including associates gets a vote on what cases the firm takes and what cases the firm doesn't take. Every lawyer also decides who gets hired. All 5 offices are pretty integrated and on many of the larger cases, you have lawyers from multiple offices working together.

How much money are we talking? And what kind of hours are required?

I've heard people bill 3k a year. I've also heard those numbers are inflated and that 2500-2700 is more accurate. still, a ton of hours.

Bonuses range from 40k to 100k.

Anyone who is billing 3000 hours a year doing litigation is either constantly in trial (not likely) or padding (more likely).

anon168 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Thoughts on Susman?

do you want to take depos in your first year? do you want to argue motions/hearings in court in your first year? do you want to be paid more than any other associates in biglaw?

If you are someone who isn't afraid of being thrown right into the deep end as a young litigator and being given responsibility equal to junior partners at most biglaw firms then there isn't a better law firm in my opinion. The firm is also very democratic. Every lawyers including associates gets a vote on what cases the firm takes and what cases the firm doesn't take. Every lawyer also decides who gets hired. All 5 offices are pretty integrated and on many of the larger cases, you have lawyers from multiple offices working together.

This is so wrong.

Care to elaborate?

Anonymous User wrote:

anon168 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Thoughts on Susman?

do you want to take depos in your first year? do you want to argue motions/hearings in court in your first year? do you want to be paid more than any other associates in biglaw?

If you are someone who isn't afraid of being thrown right into the deep end as a young litigator and being given responsibility equal to junior partners at most biglaw firms then there isn't a better law firm in my opinion. The firm is also very democratic. Every lawyers including associates gets a vote on what cases the firm takes and what cases the firm doesn't take. Every lawyer also decides who gets hired. All 5 offices are pretty integrated and on many of the larger cases, you have lawyers from multiple offices working together.

This is so wrong.

Care to elaborate?

Sure.

Susman does not pay more than any other litigation firm. You cannot just focus on absolute pay, because that's just stupid. You have to look at Total Comp per billable hours. Using that criteria, Susman is not at the top.

When you write, "The firm is also very democratic. Every lawyers including associates gets a vote on what cases the firm takes and what cases the firm doesn't take." please do not just cut/paste from the firm's website. Just because you have a vote, doesn't mean it actually counts. People in Russia have a vote in elections, but the same people seem to get elected year-in and year-out.

"Every lawyer also decides who gets hired." Just think about how ridiculous that statement is.

Look, I'm not saying Susman is a bad firm (because they are very very good); nor am I saying that they do not pay very well (because they do compensate their associates quite well); nor am I saying that the firm doesn't have a unique democratic culture (because they do), but just don't drink the Kool-Aid that everyone seems to be pouring on these boards.

anon168 wrote:Susman does not pay more than any other litigation firm. You cannot just focus on absolute pay, because that's just stupid. You have to look at Total Comp per billable hours. Using that criteria, Susman is not at the top.

Oh come on now. Using that line of reasoning many big law firms don't pay more than many small-town plumbers. You cannot just focus on absolute pay, because that's just stupid. You have to look at Total Comp per billable hours. Using that criteria, plumbing firms come out on top compared to associates who bill over 2,500 hours at major market firms.

More money per year = more money per year, even if the money per hour isn't that much higher either.

Anyone done any callbacks at Susman LA or Seattle yet?

anon168 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

anon168 wrote: This is so wrong.

Care to elaborate?

Sure.

Susman does not pay more than any other litigation firm. You cannot just focus on absolute pay, because that's just stupid. You have to look at Total Comp per billable hours. Using that criteria, Susman is not at the top.

If you work in the Houston office (which is their largest), the bonus is around 45k for a first year. Add that to the 160k salary, plus the 10k signing/vacation bonus and you're looking at 215k end of the year all-in. Once you take into account the lack of state income tax and COL, then even with your stupid Total Comp per billable hour, I'm sure Susman comes out on top.

Add the fact there is a short 6 year track to becoming an equity partner and you're looking at the best firm in the country if your interest is making as much money as possible in the shortest period of time.

When you write, "The firm is also very democratic. Every lawyers including associates gets a vote on what cases the firm takes and what cases the firm doesn't take." please do not just cut/paste from the firm's website. Just because you have a vote, doesn't mean it actually counts. People in Russia have a vote in elections, but the same people seem to get elected year-in and year-out.

Have you worked at Susman? I'm guessing not.

Well I have worked there and I've seen what I'm talking about. Every new case (whether contingency or billable by the hour) has to get a majority vote of all the lawyers at the firm. That means every lawyer gets one vote. Majority Rule. Sure if Steve Susman makes an impassioned plea one way or another, it'll carry clout and sway votes, but that still doesn't change the fact he still has only one vote.

There have been times Steve has brought in a case and he has lost the vote because a majority of the lawyers didn't think it was a good case for the firm to take.

"Every lawyer also decides who gets hired." Just think about how ridiculous that statement is.

SMH. You're exposing yourself as someone who has no real knowledge about the firm and is just spouting nonsense. Once again, I've worked there and I've seen this first hand. Also, this practice isn't super unique. Munger Tolles also has a similar rule in which all lawyers vote on new hires. At Susman, whether you're looking to be hired as a summer associate or full time associate , you will need a majority of all the lawyers at the firm to vote for your approval.

Look, I'm not saying Susman is a bad firm (because they are very very good); nor am I saying that they do not pay very well (because they do compensate their associates quite well); nor am I saying that the firm doesn't have a unique democratic culture (because they do), but just don't drink the Kool-Aid that everyone seems to be pouring on these boards.

I've worked there and the Kool-Aid is real if you're the type of person who enjoys the atmosphere of a firm like Susman. If you're independent, confident, and unafraid of pressure or failure then Susman is the place for you. If you need your hand held, need ten people to read over your brief before filing it, or are afraid to take risks then this probably isn't the place for you.

What kind of hours?

Anonymous User wrote:

anon168 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

anon168 wrote: This is so wrong.

Care to elaborate?

Sure.

Susman does not pay more than any other litigation firm. You cannot just focus on absolute pay, because that's just stupid. You have to look at Total Comp per billable hours. Using that criteria, Susman is not at the top.

If you work in the Houston office (which is their largest), the bonus is around 45k for a first year. Add that to the 160k salary, plus the 10k signing/vacation bonus and you're looking at 215k end of the year all-in. Once you take into account the lack of state income tax and COL, then even with your stupid Total Comp per billable hour, I'm sure Susman comes out on top.

Add the fact there is a short 6 year track to becoming an equity partner and you're looking at the best firm in the country if your interest is making as much money as possible in the shortest period of time.

When you write, "The firm is also very democratic. Every lawyers including associates gets a vote on what cases the firm takes and what cases the firm doesn't take." please do not just cut/paste from the firm's website. Just because you have a vote, doesn't mean it actually counts. People in Russia have a vote in elections, but the same people seem to get elected year-in and year-out.

Have you worked at Susman? I'm guessing not.

Well I have worked there and I've seen what I'm talking about. Every new case (whether contingency or billable by the hour) has to get a majority vote of all the lawyers at the firm. That means every lawyer gets one vote. Majority Rule. Sure if Steve Susman makes an impassioned plea one way or another, it'll carry clout and sway votes, but that still doesn't change the fact he still has only one vote.

There have been times Steve has brought in a case and he has lost the vote because a majority of the lawyers didn't think it was a good case for the firm to take.

"Every lawyer also decides who gets hired." Just think about how ridiculous that statement is.

SMH. You're exposing yourself as someone who has no real knowledge about the firm and is just spouting nonsense. Once again, I've worked there and I've seen this first hand. Also, this practice isn't super unique. Munger Tolles also has a similar rule in which all lawyers vote on new hires. At Susman, whether you're looking to be hired as a summer associate or full time associate , you will need a majority of all the lawyers at the firm to vote for your approval.

Look, I'm not saying Susman is a bad firm (because they are very very good); nor am I saying that they do not pay very well (because they do compensate their associates quite well); nor am I saying that the firm doesn't have a unique democratic culture (because they do), but just don't drink the Kool-Aid that everyone seems to be pouring on these boards.

I've worked there and the Kool-Aid is real if you're the type of person who enjoys the atmosphere of a firm like Susman. If you're independent, confident, and unafraid of pressure or failure then Susman is the place for you. If you need your hand held, need ten people to read over your brief before filing it, or are afraid to take risks then this probably isn't the place for you.

they make you clerk for a year first

Anonymous User wrote:

nonprofit-prophet wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: do you want to take depos in your first year? do you want to argue motions/hearings in court in your first year? do you want to be paid more than any other associates in biglaw?

If you are someone who isn't afraid of being thrown right into the deep end as a young litigator and being given responsibility equal to junior partners at most biglaw firms then there isn't a better law firm in my opinion. The firm is also very democratic. Every lawyers including associates gets a vote on what cases the firm takes and what cases the firm doesn't take. Every lawyer also decides who gets hired. All 5 offices are pretty integrated and on many of the larger cases, you have lawyers from multiple offices working together.

How much money are we talking? And what kind of hours are required?

I've heard people bill 3k a year. I've also heard those numbers are inflated and that 2500-2700 is more accurate. still, a ton of hours.

Bonuses range from 40k to 100k.

So roughly Wachtell-type hours for Wachtell-type pay?

True. But unlike Wachtell or many other biglaw firms, you're not billing all that time doing mind-nubbin doc review or writing memos or legal research. At Susman, you are taking depositions in your first year, arguing motions in court, arguing at hearings, second-chairing important cases. Almost every time a Susman associate goes outside the office, they are going against lawyers from other firms that are much older and more senior. Associates at Susman go head to head with senior partners at biglaw firms all the time.

Doing the exciting part of litigation along with the mind-nubbin makes the 2500-2700 billed A LOT more enjoyable than billing similar or less hours at almost any other firm.

Anonymous User wrote:What kind of hours?

Hours are high. I'm not going to lie. 2500-2700 seems about right for most associates. But these hours are not much different than comparable firms of high quality. Any V10 firm in NYC requires a similar commitment if you're interested in ever becoming partner. The good thing about Susman unlike those other firms is they expect or want all their new associates to eventually become partners.

Although the hours are high, the practice is more enjoyable because you will not be cooped up in the office all day every day as a young associate. Associates at Susman go across the country taking depositions, arguing motions and hearings as early as their first couple of months at the firm. This is a unique experience that almost no other firm offers.

I personally would rather bill 2700 hours taking ownership of my cases, taking depos, arguing motions, etc. than billing 2200 hours at a biglaw firm just doing doc review, legal research, and writing memos. Being an associate at Susman is the equivalent of being a junior litigation partner at almost any other litigation firm.

Anonymous User wrote:they make you clerk for a year first

True. I think Susman is the only firm that explicitly requires a federal clerkship. But its an implicit requirement at almost any other litigation firm in the same class as Susman. Almost every associate at firms like W&C and MTO also clerk.