Susman Godfrey Forum

[03152016]

FYI, median NYC big law partner gross annual pay is about $750,000. Don't become a lawyer to get rich.

TIL that a $750k salary doesn't make one rich.

In NYC? Look, I'm not making the normative judgement as to whether it SHOULD make you rich, but it doesn't. Keep in mind you build up to that; you start much lower.

great use of anon btw

[AveryTolar]

Didn't mean to spark a controversy. I guess I should have rephrased my question as I thought 2-3 MM was the ceiling for BigLaw, so 10+MM is unbelievable. Then again SG isn't typical BigLaw and contingency fees certainly seem to be the major factor there. And contingency fees that large are equivalent to winning the lottery. "For every Joe Jamail there are 5 schmos in baggy suits leasing back offices and advertising on Spanish language radio."

[kalvano]

Pretty sure I could live quite comfortably on $62,000 and change a month, no matter where I lived.

with how many loans tho

I mean, a $2.5MM mortgage is about $13,500 a month, and private school for two kids is roughly $8500 a month. However will you make it on only $40,000 a month.

[Old Gregg]

Pretty sure I could live quite comfortably on $62,000 and change a month, no matter where I lived.

with how many loans tho

I mean, a $2.5MM mortgage is about $13,500 a month, and private school for two kids is roughly $8500 a month. However will you make it on only $40,000 a month.

If you can't live wealthily in NYC on $750k, you're a moron. There's no point in debating this or arguing with people who think otherwise. Save your strength for other shit.

[fats provolone]

man i had some good posts in this thread

[Elston Gunn]

Thoughts on Susman?

do you want to take depos in your first year? do you want to argue motions/hearings in court in your first year? do you want to be paid more than any other associates in biglaw?

If you are someone who isn't afraid of being thrown right into the deep end as a young litigator and being given responsibility equal to junior partners at most biglaw firms then there isn't a better law firm in my opinion. The firm is also very democratic. Every lawyers including associates gets a vote on what cases the firm takes and what cases the firm doesn't take. Every lawyer also decides who gets hired. All 5 offices are pretty integrated and on many of the larger cases, you have lawyers from multiple offices working together.

Just bumping this because it is amazing.

[kings84_wr]

Didn't mean to spark a controversy. I guess I should have rephrased my question as I thought 2-3 MM was the ceiling for BigLaw, so 10+MM is unbelievable. Then again SG isn't typical BigLaw and contingency fees certainly seem to be the major factor there. And contingency fees that large are equivalent to winning the lottery. "For every Joe Jamail there are 5 schmos in baggy suits leasing back offices and advertising on Spanish language radio."

They also bill the hell out of cases. My case against Susman they billed some ungodly numbers (and still got hit for a very large number at trial, fingers crossed on appeal).

Susman is the epitome of the rambo litigator - don't leave a stone unturned and attack at every corner. Works pretty well if you win at MSJ or on appeal, but juries don't necessarily react well to thugs.

[cookiejar1]

Anyways, there are partners that make 10m+ but they are definitely more of the exception than the norm. If you're curious to read more about it there was a decent am law article written about this just last week.

Law-firm consultant Peter Zeughauser estimates that roughly a dozen firms now have partners earning $10 million. "It's still rare, but there are many more partners at that level," he says. "I would say there are likely 40 to 60 Big Law partners making $10 million or more today." Patrick McKenna, a law firm practice management consultant based in Edmonton, Canada, who works with U.S. firms, concurs with the $10 million figure.

http://www.americanlawyer.com/id=120271 ... -About-You

[Anonymous User]

c

[Anonymous User]

Bump

[nothingtosee]

With a firm this small, is it even possible to find out about things like required/minimum billable hours?
I feel like if I tried to ferret that info out of an associate, they might just be like "this person's afraid of working hard, they won't fit in here."

[Anonymous User]

There are no minimum hours...because at least from my observations there aren't really maximum hours for associates

[rpupkin]

With a firm this small, is it even possible to find out about things like required/minimum billable hours?

Your question is off the mark, but it has nothing to do with the size of Susman. It has to do with the culture of the firm. I don't mean this sarcastically: if you feel like a firm's "minimum billable hours" is relevant to your decision of where to work, then don't even think about Susman Godfrey. You just can't think like that and survive there. It's like trying out for linebacker on a football team and asking about the minimum number of tackles you need to make.

[nothingtosee]

With a firm this small, is it even possible to find out about things like required/minimum billable hours?

Your question is off the mark, but it has nothing to do with the size of Susman. It has to do with the culture of the firm. I don't mean this sarcastically: if you feel like a firm's "minimum billable hours" is relevant to your decision of where to work, then don't even think about Susman Godfrey. You just can't think like that and survive there. It's like trying out for linebacker on a football team and asking about the minimum number of tackles you need to make.

So is there a way of figuring this out for bigger firms aside from seeing how intense people are for the 5 hours you're at a firm for a callback?

[jbagelboy]

With a firm this small, is it even possible to find out about things like required/minimum billable hours?

Your question is off the mark, but it has nothing to do with the size of Susman. It has to do with the culture of the firm. I don't mean this sarcastically: if you feel like a firm's "minimum billable hours" is relevant to your decision of where to work, then don't even think about Susman Godfrey. You just can't think like that and survive there. It's like trying out for linebacker on a football team and asking about the minimum number of tackles you need to make.

So is there a way of figuring this out for bigger firms aside from seeing how intense people are for the 5 hours you're at a firm for a callback?

once you have an offer (and not before), ask for a second look and go have coffee or lunch with first and second year associates in your prospective department. You obviously won't get fully transparent answers, but it will be a little better. Also talk to 3Ls who summered at those firms or reach out to recent alums working there, they are great resources for giving you a better sense of lifestyle questions. There are also tons of receptions, offer dinners and cocktail hours, ect. where you can have slightly more honest conversations than in the interview context. None of these are ideal, but the callback really shouldn't be your only exposure to the firm before you make your decision.

At the end of the day, experience will vary amongst associates so you can't take anyone's word as gospel, but they at least provide the opportunity to have a larger sampling.

[nothingtosee]

Not counting bonuses, does Susman really pay above market?
They require a clerkship for everyone.
Don't other firms just start you at the second year salary if you clerk?
What am I missing?

[rpupkin]

Not counting bonuses, does Susman really pay above market?
They require a clerkship for everyone.
Don't other firms just start you at the second year salary if you clerk?
What am I missing?

I don't understand your question. Why would you not count bonuses as compensation?

And, yes, most firms give service credit for a clerkship, but what does that have to do with anything?

Sorry, not trying to be mean...I really don't understand what you're getting at.

[nothingtosee]

Not counting bonuses, does Susman really pay above market?
They require a clerkship for everyone.
Don't other firms just start you at the second year salary if you clerk?
What am I missing?

I don't understand your question. Why would you not count bonuses as compensation?

And, yes, most firms give service credit for a clerkship, but what does that have to do with anything?

Sorry, not trying to be mean...I really don't understand what you're getting at.

Like ATL goes nuts when a boutique pays over 160 to first year associates, for example: http://abovethelaw.com/2014/02/the-160k ... g-bonuses/

It's a pretty minor point: "we pay over 160" idea seems like a bit of hot air if you require a clerkship, since a litigation associate at any big firm makes over 160 if they've done a clerkship (and it seems like that's essentially a requirement for top firms). Of course, with bonuses that are double or more of other firms, the pay is much better.

[AveryTolar]

Out of curiosity how deep into the class at UHLC does Susman typically dip? Someone on here mentioned that they recruit from UT, UHLC and HYS, but just browsing their website I saw only a handful of UH grads.

[FSK]

Out of curiosity how deep into the class at UHLC does Susman typically dip? Someone on here mentioned that they recruit from UT, UHLC and HYS, but just browsing their website I saw only a handful of UH grads.

Oh, sweetie.

[wiz]

Out of curiosity how deep into the class at UHLC does Susman typically dip? Someone on here mentioned that they recruit from UT, UHLC and HYS, but just browsing their website I saw only a handful of UH grads.

They probably dip all the way down to valedictorian every other year.

[crit_racer]

^^you guys are dicks.

I honestly doubt the recruiting standards aren't much different for UH than they are for UT (i.e., you need to be top 1%)

[AveryTolar]

Let me rephrase, where in the class rank would someone have to be to realistically have a shot in hell of being competitive?

[FSK]

Let me rephrase, where in the class rank would someone have to be to realistically have a shot in hell of being competitive?

1/XXX. You're going to need a 2/9/DC (or equivalent for Texas cases) Clerkship to have a shot, just like every applicant.

[rpupkin]

Let me rephrase, where in the class rank would someone have to be to realistically have a shot in hell of being competitive?

1/XXX. You're going to need a 2/9/DC (or equivalent for Texas cases) Clerkship to have a shot, just like every applicant.

Although it's difficult to get hired at Susman, the bolded isn't actually true.