DC Associate/OCI Interviewer taking ?s Forum

[risingamerican_2l]

Also, what's the grade cutoff for lower T1 law schools (i.e., American)? Will I be able to get into any firms with top 20%?

[johndhi]

can you talk a bit about what "regulatory work" actually entails?

which firm(s) in DC, in your estimation, is the best "lifestyle firm"?

do you see a lot of ITC practice groups expanding in DC? IP generally?

[tengorazon]

Ever think you got yield protected from a lower ranked firm?

Standards were much different in the mid-2000s. I interviewed with 12 firms at OCI and got callbacks at all but 2. I don't think any firm engaged in yield protection. Now firms are much more selective in the candidates that they bring back. With much smaller summer classes, you really want people who are likely to accept if an offer is given.

How much do firms value working at a prestigious federal government agency? How should I spin my experience in the fed govt to my advantage?

What's "prestigious"? I think the kind of work that you did will be more important than the name, so I'd focus on that and how it's relevant to the firm's work.

[tengorazon]

Also, what's the grade cutoff for lower T1 law schools (i.e., American)? Will I be able to get into any firms with top 20%?

Hm, at the top DC firms, you will need to be top 5 in your class (assuming the firm hires at American). Still, I would think top 20% should get something; it's just hard to predict what.

[tengorazon]

can you talk a bit about what "regulatory work" actually entails?

I don't do it, so I can't really say. Generally involves representing companies before regulatory agencies.

which firm(s) in DC, in your estimation, is the best "lifestyle firm"?

No such thing, as my friends who jump ship from various firms are increasingly finding out. You're going to work hard at any firm (and most nonprofit and gov't jobs worth having). Question is to what degree and how much they're paying you. What I would focus on is face time. If you can work from home, then you can see your spouse and kids at least, or rework your schedule to have dinner with friends. My impression is that Hogan, A&P, W&C don't require much face time. I've heard that Kirkland requires face time. But that's something you should explore with people who have summered at these places (to the extent that they noticed).

do you see a lot of ITC practice groups expanding in DC? IP generally?

I don't really follow ITC or IP. I know Hogan has a good ITC group. Everyone does a bit of IP (though some firms focus more on patent litigation than actual patent work).

[Anonymous User]

How do DC offices view transfers? I was top 1% at a TTT, so no DC offices went to my old school's OCI.

My fiance lives in DC and has zero interest in moving, especially to NYC. I have a feeling I will end up in NYC because the biggest SA classes are there. How hard would it be to lateral from NYC to DC after a few years?

[Anonymous User]

Thanks so much for doing this. You don't have to answer all 3 questions but figured it couldn't hurt.

If you have small ties to DC (some prior WE) but nothing too substantial, should your emphasis on why you want to work in DC be focused on the practice areas of DC firms (regulatory, government-facing litigation, etc.), or are you also supposed to make clear that you like the city?

Is there an appropriate way to say you might want to work in the government at some point in your career, but making clear that would not be anytime soon? Or should you not mention government work at all?

How much of an obstacle is it if you aren't in DC for your 1L summer, and should you address that openly in an interview? Or will firms not care?

[tengorazon]

How do DC offices view transfers? I was top 1% at a TTT, so no DC offices went to my old school's OCI.

My fiance lives in DC and has zero interest in moving, especially to NYC. I have a feeling I will end up in NYC because the biggest SA classes are there. How hard would it be to lateral from NYC to DC after a few years?

Some firms view transfers the same as any other applicant at OCI. My firm will only consider transfers from schools at which we also conduct OCI.

As for lateraling, I know a few people who have transferred from NYC to DC, but it really depends on the firm, and you might have to switch firms to pull it off.

[tengorazon]

Thanks so much for doing this. You don't have to answer all 3 questions but figured it couldn't hurt.

If you have small ties to DC (some prior WE) but nothing too substantial, should your emphasis on why you want to work in DC be focused on the practice areas of DC firms (regulatory, government-facing litigation, etc.), or are you also supposed to make clear that you like the city?

I'd probably focus more on practice areas, but it doesn't hurt to say that you've spent some time in the city before and liked it.

Is there an appropriate way to say you might want to work in the government at some point in your career, but making clear that would not be anytime soon? Or should you not mention government work at all?

I wouldn't mention it unless you're interviewing with someone who did it. In that case, I'd ask them about their experience.

How much of an obstacle is it if you aren't in DC for your 1L summer, and should you address that openly in an interview? Or will firms not care?

Doesn't really matter if you have other reasons for being in DC.

[risingamerican_2l]

Ever think you got yield protected from a lower ranked firm?

Standards were much different in the mid-2000s. I interviewed with 12 firms at OCI and got callbacks at all but 2. I don't think any firm engaged in yield protection. Now firms are much more selective in the candidates that they bring back. With much smaller summer classes, you really want people who are likely to accept if an offer is given.

How much do firms value working at a prestigious federal government agency? How should I spin my experience in the fed govt to my advantage?

What's "prestigious"? I think the kind of work that you did will be more important than the name, so I'd focus on that and how it's relevant to the firm's work.

The usual suspects--e.g., EPA, SEC, IRS, etc.

[tengorazon]

The usual suspects--e.g., EPA, SEC, IRS, etc.

Should be useful if the firm does work involving those agencies. If it doesn't, then focus on generalizing the type of work that you did and making it applicable to the firm.

[Anonymous User]

Do you (or your firm) conduct OCI at all T14 schools?

[tengorazon]

Do you (or your firm) conduct OCI at all T14 schools?

Hmm. Yes, I think so. Maybe not Northwestern, but I seem to recall a summer from there.

[Anonymous User]

What are the grade cut offs for your firm within the t14? Any difference by tier?

Aside from obvious stuff like grades/LR, what else can someone do to make the cut in DC? What separates someone you think can handle your firm from someone who can't?

Any other common TLS misconceptions you've seen?

[tengorazon]

What are the grade cut offs for your firm within the t14? Any difference by tier?

About what you'd expect: Lower for HYS, high for GULC. We try to maintain about the same number of people from each school from year to year, and the number of spots also decreases the farther down you go. I'm not sure that specific grade cut-offs will be terribly helpful without naming my firm. But expect that the more selective firms will have higher grade cut-offs.

Aside from obvious stuff like grades/LR, what else can someone do to make the cut in DC? What separates someone you think can handle your firm from someone who can't?

A demonstrated interest in what we do. If you spent your 1L summer doing work that would be useful at the firm, then that's a plus. In-depth knowledge about the firm is also good. Anything that shows that you've done your homework.

Any other common TLS misconceptions you've seen?

Lol most perceptions of relative firm quality. Truth of the matter is that most of the top 10 or so in DC do pretty similar stuff. Of course, some firms handle the really high-stakes matters and some firms have niche practices, but the bread and butter is mostly the same, and the bread and butter is mostly what you'll be doing. A couple of firms have pretty strong cultures, but there's really not much of a difference between most of them. You will have similar experiences at Covington, Hogan, A&P, Wilmer, Latham, Akin, etc. W&C is arguably the most different of the big DC firms. Just put in your time at the highest ranked one you can (unless you're interested in a niche practice area) and move on. If you want to make partner, go to a place with a low partner-to-associate ratio or plan to jump ship after a few years.

[Anonymous User]

A demonstrated interest in what we do. If you spent your 1L summer doing work that would be useful at the firm, then that's a plus. In-depth knowledge about the firm is also good. Anything that shows that you've done your homework.

2 follow up questions: 1) how often to interviewees NOT know about the firm/appear to have not done their homework? 2) Anything an interviewee can do to set themselves apart?

Also wondering: what firms would be examples of places with a "good" partner to associate ratio, such that making partner is realistic?

Thanks!

[tengorazon]

2 follow up questions: 1) how often to interviewees NOT know about the firm/appear to have not done their homework? 2) Anything an interviewee can do to set themselves apart?

I've heard of interviewees saying they're interested in practice areas we don't have. That's an auto ding. Really generic answers also don't do much good. "I'm really interested in litigation." Good for you. "I've heard that you guys have an interesting pro-bono partnership with X. How does that work?" Ah, so you've done a bit of research!

Also wondering: what firms would be examples of places with a "good" partner to associate ratio, such that making partner is realistic?

Hm I've seen the ratios somewhere. Maybe the American Lawyer stats? My impression is that it's easier to make partner at Cov, W&C, Hogan, and A&P than at firms like Wilmer and Latham.

[Anonymous User]

I'm an M&A lawyer at a V10, and would potentially want to practice in DC for personal reasons. Like the vibe of A&P. Is it a good landing spot or should I look for other firms in corporate?

[tengorazon]

I'm an M&A lawyer at a V10, and would potentially want to practice in DC for personal reasons. Like the vibe of A&P. Is it a good landing spot or should I look for other firms in corporate?

I actually know someone in A&P's corporate practice, and he enjoys it. Hogan is also good for corporate. Both seem to do quality work, but I don't know how it compares to NYC.

[Anonymous User]

It's rough out there. I know people from the t14 who were laid off in 2008-09 and who are still looking for jobs.

Since there are a fair number of experienced licensed lawyers looking for work, I have to wonder why they are overlooked for the likes of unlicensed attorneys fresh out of LS? As I understand it, many of these “available” attorneys were simply victims of ITE.

[Myself]

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[tengorazon]

It's rough out there. I know people from the t14 who were laid off in 2008-09 and who are still looking for jobs.

Since there are a fair number of experienced licensed lawyers looking for work, I have to wonder why they are overlooked for the likes of unlicensed attorneys fresh out of LS? As I understand it, many of these “available” attorneys were simply victims of ITE.

Yep, I wonder the same thing. It's a very odd phenomenon, this "lost generation" of lawyers.

[tengorazon]

I've heard of interviewees saying they're interested in practice areas we don't have. That's an auto ding. Really generic answers also don't do much good. "I'm really interested in litigation." Good for you.

How much more detailed would you like us to go? I am interested in litigation, but there are so many types of matters that I would want to work on, which is why I usually say I am interested in lit. I guess I could narrow it down to business litigation, but how specific are you looking for?

I'm not saying you should give a detailed answer about what type of law you would like to practice. My point is that the answer doesn't really say anything about why you want to practice with us.

[stewie27]

Is it a big disadvantage to have gone straight through from undergrad?

[tengorazon]

Is it a big disadvantage to have gone straight through from undergrad?

Only in that you probably won't have as much interesting stuff on your resume. A greater focus will be placed on your 1L summer work and anything interesting/relevant you did in undergrad. I went straight through, but worked at DOJ my 1L summer and did some substantive work that I was able to talk about during my interviews.