OCI Outlook Forum

[Anonymous User]

Since there are several TLS posters who have scads of data, my question is: in recent years how many offers are typically generated through OCI, mass mailings, and job fairs? Are there any early indicators about how 2012 might be shaping up. . . i.e., did '12 SA openings outpace last year.

Several threads suggest that those at median (in the T14) might be in for a rough ride and for those just outside the T14 need their grades to be in the top 25% and Tier2 it is more like top 10% To me that means employment chances could be weaker than hoped for.

Are the “hardest markets,” like DC, Chicago, Atlanta, CA and Florida still soft or are they finally turning the corner?

[ben4847]

My best guess is that it will be roughly the same as last year. Maybe a drop worse?

[Anonymous User]

My firm's hiring is going to be up ~20% over last year. Doubt that is typical though.

[Anonymous User]

My firm's hiring is going to be up ~20% over last year. Doubt that is typical though.

which firm?

[shock259]

I'm expecting about the same. I haven't seen much to indicate a rise or a drop either way, but I haven't really been looking for it anyway. No reason to stress over things we can't control.

[rayiner]

C/O 2011 was the bottom: http://www.nalp.org/uploads/NatlSummCha ... of2011.pdf

Last year, about 5,500 of 44,000 graduates started at a firm of over 50 attorneys. With offer rates being what they are, that's probably 6,000 SA spots at firms of the kind that will make a permanent offer. The last couple of years were up, but not dramatically. Indeed this year will probably be down from last year.

[pjo]

From what I hear, T14 hiring at OCI should be better than last year (as in firms dipping lower into the class to take people), and everyone else should remain the same. UVA has about 25 more firms (unique firms, not more offices of the same firm) coming this year than last year. Also, in the secondary markets I'm looking at, firms have either stayed the same in SA class size or increased by 1-2 (which is a lot considering most of these firms only take 6-10). I haven't seen any firms decrease in class size.

[letsdoit]

C/O 2011 was the bottom: http://www.nalp.org/uploads/NatlSummCha ... of2011.pdf

Last year, about 5,500 of 44,000 graduates started at a firm of over 50 attorneys. With offer rates being what they are, that's probably 6,000 SA spots at firms of the kind that will make a permanent offer. The last couple of years were up, but not dramatically. Indeed this year will probably be down from last year.

what makes you think #s will be down from last year? i certainly agree, given the uncertainty regarding europe and the us sequester/tax increase at the end of the year, i'm just curious what your reasoning is.

[letsdoit]

From what I hear, T14 hiring at OCI should be better than last year (as in firms dipping lower into the class to take people), and everyone else should remain the same. UVA has about 25 more firms (unique firms, not more offices of the same firm) coming this year than last year. Also, in the secondary markets I'm looking at, firms have either stayed the same in SA class size or increased by 1-2 (which is a lot considering most of these firms only take 6-10). I haven't seen any firms decrease in class size.

i just mass mailed a few major markets and some firms are definitely taking less than last year.

[rayiner]

C/O 2011 was the bottom: http://www.nalp.org/uploads/NatlSummCha ... of2011.pdf

Last year, about 5,500 of 44,000 graduates started at a firm of over 50 attorneys. With offer rates being what they are, that's probably 6,000 SA spots at firms of the kind that will make a permanent offer. The last couple of years were up, but not dramatically. Indeed this year will probably be down from last year.

what makes you think #s will be down from last year? i certainly agree, given the uncertainty regarding europe and the us sequester/tax increase at the end of the year, i'm just curious what your reasoning is.

Law firm hiring is much more simple minded than that. Last two years was an uptick in work = uptick in hiring. This year is in a downtick in work = downtick in hiring.

[pjo]

C/O 2011 was the bottom: http://www.nalp.org/uploads/NatlSummCha ... of2011.pdf

Last year, about 5,500 of 44,000 graduates started at a firm of over 50 attorneys. With offer rates being what they are, that's probably 6,000 SA spots at firms of the kind that will make a permanent offer. The last couple of years were up, but not dramatically. Indeed this year will probably be down from last year.

what makes you think #s will be down from last year? i certainly agree, given the uncertainty regarding europe and the us sequester/tax increase at the end of the year, i'm just curious what your reasoning is.

Law firm hiring is much more simple minded than that. Last two years was an uptick in work = uptick in hiring. This year is in a downtick in work = downtick in hiring.

Maybe it's becuase I'm only interested in secondary markets, but the firms I've dealt with have strayed away from this type of short sightedness in hiring. They cut back substantially in 2009 or 2010, then increased slightly in 2011. I've been told they'll increase slightly once more this year or next and then hold steady. Also, offer rates for SA's are now 100% at most of these firms, but their class size is anywhere from 1/2 to 3/4 the size it was prior to the recession, and every firm has told me that they don't plan on making class sizes that large again. Also, most firms in the markets I'm looking returned their first year salaries to what they were pre-recession (after cutting them in 2009). None of this may be applicable to NY/DC though.

[Anonymous User]

V10 hiring partner I talked to said they are decreasing SA size. Reflective of M&A slowdown.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder how big of hit we're looking at this year..

[Anonymous User]

Given the M&A slow down, will it be generally easier to get an offer if you express an interest in lit (vs. corp) -- all other things being equal??

I know in years past, it was the other way around-at least at some of the bigger NYC shops.

[monkey85]

Given the M&A slow down, will it be generally easier to get an offer if you express an interest in lit (vs. corp) -- all other things being equal??

I know in years past, it was the other way around-at least at some of the bigger NYC shops.

Not necessarily. Some firms with slower M&A practices may also have a slowdown in litigation. You have to make that call on a firm-specific basis.

[anon168]

Given the M&A slow down, will it be generally easier to get an offer if you express an interest in lit (vs. corp) -- all other things being equal??

I know in years past, it was the other way around-at least at some of the bigger NYC shops.

Not necessarily. Some firms with slower M&A practices may also have a slowdown in litigation. You have to make that call on a firm-specific basis.

Or just shift jr. associates to litigation.

[keg411]

Given the M&A slow down, will it be generally easier to get an offer if you express an interest in lit (vs. corp) -- all other things being equal??

I know in years past, it was the other way around-at least at some of the bigger NYC shops.

Not necessarily. Some firms with slower M&A practices may also have a slowdown in litigation. You have to make that call on a firm-specific basis.

I'd imagine it also depends on how M&A heavy the firm's corporate practice is. But I'd guess at the shops where litigation is driven by transactional would probably be slow overall.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. My friend who landed a Big Law SA spot was given an offer today (she believes everyone else in her SA group are also receiving offers). Her firm (that overlooks central park) is also recruiting at OCI. From that front things are encouraging.

As a side note, my advice to everyone entering LS, try your damnest to get an SA position. At that point you are judged on your SA work and not whether you are on LR, a journal or MC. Apparently grades are also secondary . . . I say this because she nailed her SA position before her first grades came out (she did OK) but dropped to median-ish on the second go-around. She was sweating her decline in grades but the decline was not a deal killer. Unlike me, she does not have to sweat OCI, job fairs, mass mailings and what the legal market is like ITE.

[09042014]

OP here. My friend who landed a Big Law SA spot was given an offer today (she believes everyone else in her SA group are also receiving offers). Her firm (that overlooks central park) is also recruiting at OCI. From that front things are encouraging.

WOA a NYC firm 1) gave offers and 2) is going to OCI.

NYC to 190!

[071816]

OP here. My friend who landed a Big Law SA spot was given an offer today (she believes everyone else in her SA group are also receiving offers). Her firm (that overlooks central park) is also recruiting at OCI. From that front things are encouraging.

in other news, water is wet.

[mrosmith]

About half the firms at Georgetown's 2L OCI have doubled the amount of interviews they are conducting.

[pleasetryagain]

OP here. My friend who landed a Big Law SA spot was given an offer today (she believes everyone else in her SA group are also receiving offers). Her firm (that overlooks central park) is also recruiting at OCI. From that front things are encouraging.

As a side note, my advice to everyone entering LS, try your damnest to get an SA position. At that point you are judged on your SA work and not whether you are on LR, a journal or MC. Apparently grades are also secondary . . . I say this because she nailed her SA position before her first grades came out (she did OK) but dropped to median-ish on the second go-around. She was sweating her decline in grades but the decline was not a deal killer. Unlike me, she does not have to sweat OCI, job fairs, mass mailings and what the legal market is like ITE.

To be clear, the second paragraph only applies to the firm at which you have the SA. Any other firm you apply to wants to see grades, LR, Journal, MC, etc regardless of the fact that you were a SA at bignycfirmoverlookingcentralpark. Also to say that grades are secondary is just plain incorrect absent exceptional circumstances.

[Anonymous User]

As a side note, my advice to everyone entering LS, try your damnest to get an SA position. At that point you are judged on your SA work and not whether you are on LR, a journal or MC. Apparently grades are also secondary . . . I say this because she nailed her SA position before her first grades came out (she did OK) but dropped to median-ish on the second go-around. She was sweating her decline in grades but the decline was not a deal killer. Unlike me, she does not have to sweat OCI, job fairs, mass mailings and what the legal market is like ITE.

To be clear, the second paragraph only applies to the firm at which you have the SA. Any other firm you apply to wants to see grades, LR, Journal, MC, etc regardless of the fact that you were a SA at bignycfirmoverlookingcentralpark. Also to say that grades are secondary is just plain incorrect absent exceptional circumstances.

As I mentioned, she was extremely concerned about her second semester grades (all B’s and a B- ). If she had not secured the 1L SA spot. . . hard to imagine opening the bubbly.