Top Law Schools

Lower t14 school that has almost everyone on a journal (like Duke, NU, Cornell, etc.), but no journal or work experience...safely top 25%, closer to top 20%....how boned am I? No moot court either, I can maybe get a clinic...

Also does no journal matter more for corporate vs. lit? I've heard anecdotes that journal is more important for lit...

Anonymous User wrote:Lower t14 school that has almost everyone on a journal (like Duke, NU, Cornell, etc.), but no journal or work experience...safely top 25%, closer to top 20%....how boned am I? No moot court either, I can maybe get a clinic...

Why did you not get on a journal? Other extracurriculars? At my school (UT), the CSO told us that being on a journal other than law review is not much of a boost unless you are on the editorial board. Of course, you can't be on an editorial board when you do OCI in most cases.

I am a bit skeptical of this. However, as long as you're not doing litigation, I imagine you that, while you might under perform, you would get something Big Law with that class rank.

Yeah, and nobody--absent some smaller firms in small markets--cares about moot court.

Perseus_I wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Lower t14 school that has almost everyone on a journal (like Duke, NU, Cornell, etc.), but no journal or work experience...safely top 25%, closer to top 20%....how boned am I? No moot court either, I can maybe get a clinic...

Why did you not get on a journal? Other extracurriculars? At my school (UT), the CSO told us that being on a journal other than law review is not much of a boost unless you are on the editorial board. Of course, you can't be on an editorial board when you do OCI in most cases.

I am a bit skeptical of this. However, as long as you're not doing litigation, I imagine you that, while you might under perform, you would get something Big Law with that class rank.

Yeah, and nobody--absent some smaller firms in small markets--cares about moot court.

I did terribly on the writing comp (personal reasons but nothing significant enough to actually be a legit excuse).

I'm worried because literally 70%+ of the people at my school have a journal and most people that don't are IP or JD/MBA...

.

Grades >>> journal. You've got good grades at a good school. Mass mail like crazy and spend a lot of time practicing your interviewing skills. If you interview well, you should be fine.

Do you have any extra curricular (moot court, trial team, etc.)? I am not a member of a journal, go to a lower top-14 that puts anyone who wants it on a journal, and had grades that were not as good as yours and I did fine.

bjsesq wrote:Do you have any extra curricular (moot court, trial team, etc.)? I am not a member of a journal, go to a lower top-14 that puts anyone who wants it on a journal, and had grades that were not as good as yours and I did fine.

I have one extracurricular but it's one of those lame clubs and nothing like moot court/trial team...

Did you ever get a question about why no journal? I'm not sure how to answer it without coming off as cocky (I didn't want to do a journal), or lazy, or stupid (I tried but I didn't get on).

Anonymous User wrote:

Perseus_I wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Lower t14 school that has almost everyone on a journal (like Duke, NU, Cornell, etc.), but no journal or work experience...safely top 25%, closer to top 20%....how boned am I? No moot court either, I can maybe get a clinic...

Why did you not get on a journal? Other extracurriculars? At my school (UT), the CSO told us that being on a journal other than law review is not much of a boost unless you are on the editorial board. Of course, you can't be on an editorial board when you do OCI in most cases.

I am a bit skeptical of this. However, as long as you're not doing litigation, I imagine you that, while you might under perform, you would get something Big Law with that class rank.

Yeah, and nobody--absent some smaller firms in small markets--cares about moot court.

I did terribly on the writing comp (personal reasons but nothing significant enough to actually be a legit excuse).

I'm worried because literally 70%+ of the people at my school have a journal and most people that don't are IP or JD/MBA...

You def. don't go to NU.

Anonymous User wrote:

bjsesq wrote:Do you have any extra curricular (moot court, trial team, etc.)? I am not a member of a journal, go to a lower top-14 that puts anyone who wants it on a journal, and had grades that were not as good as yours and I did fine.

I have one extracurricular but it's one of those lame clubs and nothing like moot court/trial team...

Did you ever get a question about why no journal? I'm not sure how to answer it without coming off as cocky (I didn't want to do a journal), or lazy, or stupid (I tried but I didn't get on).

I was never asked the question. Not once. No bullshit.

Just come up with a good reason for not doing journal if someone asks. "I want to do moot court, and clinics instead." I doubt anyone will care. Everyone knows journals are stupid and are secretarial work.

Desert Fox wrote:Just come up with a good reason for not doing journal if someone asks. "I want to do moot court, and clinics instead." I doubt anyone will care. Everyone knows journals are stupid and are secretarial work.

Would just a clinic be enough? I missed the boat on moot court, we did it 1st year.

Probably not that bad. Journals aren't really a boost, it's more just a slight negative not to have one. From what I could tell from friends the year ahead of me, even LR only helped once the person was in the general GPA range for the firm (i.e. friend w/ only slightly above median but LR cleaned up with firms that she was even on the low end for, but there was a clear dividing line where she just wasn't considered). Also, I would caution against bidding heavily on DC, since those firms do like to see at least some kind of journal and usually LR, but it sounds like you want corporate anyways.

If your screener interviewer is familiar with your school and knows that almost everyone who tries gets a journal it might be more of an issue, but otherwise not a problem. You might underperform your GPA just a little bit if you don't stand out in interviews or resume so I would make sure to hustle and be cautious with your bidding. Barring terrible interviewing skills, you should manage to get something with your GPA/school and once you have an offer you will be very glad that you aren't on a journal.

chasgoose wrote:Probably not that bad. Journals aren't really a boost, it's more just a slight negative not to have one. From what I could tell from friends the year ahead of me, even LR only helped once the person was in the general GPA range for the firm (i.e. friend w/ only slightly above median but LR cleaned up with firms that she was even on the low end for, but there was a clear dividing line where she just wasn't considered). Also, I would caution against bidding heavily on DC, since those firms do like to see at least some kind of journal and usually LR, but it sounds like you want corporate anyways.

If your screener interviewer is familiar with your school and knows that almost everyone who tries gets a journal it might be more of an issue, but otherwise not a problem. You might underperform your GPA just a little bit if you don't stand out in interviews or resume so I would make sure to hustle and be cautious with your bidding. Barring terrible interviewing skills, you should manage to get something with your GPA/school and once you have an offer you will be very glad that you aren't on a journal.

This is what I'm most worried about, but it seems like there is still some hope for me. Thanks BJS, DF, and others.

Trying to get onto a clinic now but a lot of the deadlines have passed

Maybe you should exaggerate the personal reasons. Firms are more likely to believe when someone with an otherwise solid transcript claims that something stopped him from participating in the journal competition.

Pokemon wrote:Maybe you should exaggerate the personal reasons. Firms are more likely to believe when someone with an otherwise solid transcript claims that something stopped him from participating in the journal competition.

It was a very silly personal reason, I don't even want to bring it up, and I don't want to fabricate something entirely.

Pokemon wrote:Maybe you should exaggerate the personal reasons. Firms are more likely to believe when someone with an otherwise solid transcript claims that something stopped him from participating in the journal competition.

Maybe you should stop giving advice.

LOL at this thread

I'd bet money OP goes to Cornell based on this info (and the 1st year moot court thing).

OP, what is your schedule like for next year right now? You can always say that you 100% want transactional work and want to focus on courses that will give exposure to that now that you can take them. But make sure you can come up with good reasons for want transactional and good reasons why it would be a good fit. However, I think with top 20-25%-ish grades you aren't going to get dinged just for lack of journal.

keg411 wrote:I'd bet money OP goes to Cornell based on this info (and the 1st year moot court thing).

OP, what is your schedule like for next year right now? You can always say that you 100% want transactional work and want to focus on courses that will give exposure to that now that you can take them. But make sure you can come up with good reasons for want transactional and good reasons why it would be a good fit. However, I think with top 20-25%-ish grades you aren't going to get dinged just for lack of journal.

Cornell was my thought too, but more than half of our class does 1L Moot Court so not sure why you thought that was a hint.

So is it true no journal hurts less if I can show I 100% want corporate/transaction less than litigation? This is true in my case, I am going to show my strong interest in transaction throughout OCI.

You're going to be fine.

Arbiter213 wrote:

keg411 wrote:I'd bet money OP goes to Cornell based on this info (and the 1st year moot court thing).

OP, what is your schedule like for next year right now? You can always say that you 100% want transactional work and want to focus on courses that will give exposure to that now that you can take them. But make sure you can come up with good reasons for want transactional and good reasons why it would be a good fit. However, I think with top 20-25%-ish grades you aren't going to get dinged just for lack of journal.

Cornell was my thought too, but more than half of our class does 1L Moot Court so not sure why you thought that was a hint.

Any thoughts on this dilemma?

Anonymous User wrote:

Arbiter213 wrote:

keg411 wrote:I'd bet money OP goes to Cornell based on this info (and the 1st year moot court thing).

OP, what is your schedule like for next year right now? You can always say that you 100% want transactional work and want to focus on courses that will give exposure to that now that you can take them. But make sure you can come up with good reasons for want transactional and good reasons why it would be a good fit. However, I think with top 20-25%-ish grades you aren't going to get dinged just for lack of journal.

Cornell was my thought too, but more than half of our class does 1L Moot Court so not sure why you thought that was a hint.

Any thoughts on this dilemma?

IAFG wrote:You're going to be fine.

ETA: If OP is at Cornell, it'd be sort of impressive to miss all journals with top 20% grades. Like, not even completing writing competition impressive. So best have a good story lined up.

Top 20-25% at T14 and you don't suck at interviewing should mean that you are still fine.