Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques Forum
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
-
- Posts: 428480
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
Disclaimer: I know that getting into an appellate boutique is insanely difficult. In fact, it's a pipe dream for most people. That being said...
Anyone have any idea on the compensation schemes at either of the major appellate boutiques in LA, Greines Martin and Horvitz Levy? Comparable to BigLaw, better, worse?
Anyone have any idea on the compensation schemes at either of the major appellate boutiques in LA, Greines Martin and Horvitz Levy? Comparable to BigLaw, better, worse?
-
- Posts: 428480
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
Midlaw, maybe a little less than midlaw.Anonymous User wrote:Disclaimer: I know that getting into an appellate boutique is insanely difficult. In fact, it's a pipe dream for most people. That being said...
Anyone have any idea on the compensation schemes at either of the major appellate boutiques in LA, Greines Martin and Horvitz Levy? Comparable to BigLaw, better, worse?
-
- Posts: 428480
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
Less than midlaw? Anyone have current or more specific knowledge on this?
-
- Posts: 922
- Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:36 pm
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
Your absolute total comp (base plus bonus) will be lower than comparable biglaw in LA, but because you are working less, your total comp/hour will be higher.Anonymous User wrote:Disclaimer: I know that getting into an appellate boutique is insanely difficult. In fact, it's a pipe dream for most people. That being said...
Anyone have any idea on the compensation schemes at either of the major appellate boutiques in LA, Greines Martin and Horvitz Levy? Comparable to BigLaw, better, worse?
-
- Posts: 428480
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
So how much less than BigLaw are we actually talking? 120k instead of 160k starting?
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 922
- Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:36 pm
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
Lower.Anonymous User wrote:So how much less than BigLaw are we actually talking? 120k instead of 160k starting?
Understand something. Biglaw profits come not from actual legal work, but the daily churn that is discovery.
There is almost no discovery, if any, in pure appellate work. And leverage is significantly lower.
Do the math. People, associates and partners incl, do not get rich doing appellate work.
-
- Posts: 428480
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
This makes sense. But isn't that mostly an argument for keeping such a firm really small? Aren't they still able to bill a decent amount per hour?
Not trolling... just curious why small and successful appellate boutiques wouldn't be able to pay its lawyers BigLaw wages.
Not trolling... just curious why small and successful appellate boutiques wouldn't be able to pay its lawyers BigLaw wages.
-
- Posts: 922
- Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:36 pm
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
It's never the amount/hour that's key. It's the total number of hours that's the real driver of firm profits.Anonymous User wrote:This makes sense. But isn't that mostly an argument for keeping such a firm really small? Aren't they still able to bill a decent amount per hour?
Not trolling... just curious why small and successful appellate boutiques wouldn't be able to pay its lawyers BigLaw wages.
It matters little if you can only bill something like 1000 hours on a case even if you are billing out at 1000/hour, when a typical biglaw litigation firm can bill 100,000 hours on a case with an average of 300/hour. As an appellate firm, there's only so much you can bill on a matter because the majority of the heavy lifting in terms of hours in litigation comes in the form of discovery, which is nearly nonexistent in appellate work.
-
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:20 pm
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
But if you have a small number of lawyers, then
smaller total number of hours/
smaller number of lawyers
compensates for that right?
smaller total number of hours/
smaller number of lawyers
compensates for that right?
-
- Posts: 922
- Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:36 pm
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
I have never done the math, but not really. Part of the reason is that the total number of hours for biglaw is significantly higher and outpaces what you assume would be a 1:1 ratio of the number of lawyers (denominator) between biglaw and appellate boutique.stoogesreal wrote:But if you have a small number of lawyers, then
smaller total number of hours/
smaller number of lawyers
compensates for that right?
Most biglaw appellate sections are loss-leaders, firms have them on board more for door decoration than as real profit centers. In fact, many of the biglaw corporate folks view the entire litigation dept as dead-weight. So, you can only imagine the kind of revenue/profits a stand-alone appellate firm makes.
-
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:20 pm
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
Gotcha. That makes sense. And probably explains why lawyers like the "lifestyle" of appellate work.
-
- Posts: 922
- Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:36 pm
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
I have a pretty good friend who's a partner at H&L, and loves it there. Basically 9-5, plan out your year (yes, year) in advance, take vacations without nary a worry, sit in the office and ruminate about "what ought" or "what should" happen, and then at 4:30 go home cursing trial counsel for failing to preserve the record.stoogesreal wrote:Gotcha. That makes sense. And probably explains why lawyers like the "lifestyle" of appellate work.
It's not a bad work/life mix, but there are tradeoffs (as we've been discussing).
-
- Posts: 428480
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
Any sense of the signing bonuses offered by these firms for post-clerkship hiring?
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 428480
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
Bump, I’m also interested in the above. Any updates Re on the salaries here in general?
-
- Posts: 428480
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
Does anyone have updated/concrete info on this topic?
-
- Posts: 428480
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
I have a friend who moved from one of these firms to a non-federal government position (think City Attorney/DA/California AG), which was a pay boost.
-
- Posts: 428480
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
get a job at Susman's LA office and reap the rewards in their appellate dept.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 428480
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
Does anyone have any information on the current compensation at Horvitz and Levy for mid-level associates? I understand from the previous posts that they pay below market, but was hoping to get a sense of how far below and whether they will pay a clerkship bonus for someone joining from a CA9 clerkship.
-
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:22 pm
Re: Compensation at LA Appellate Boutiques
Bumping this. Would love to get a better idea of what Horvitz & Levy pays associates.
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login