Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

(Different anon)

Oh and which firms have the biggest SA classes there? It seems like most are pretty small.

To add to what the above anon said: if you really want to work in the Bay Area I suggest being open to the SV firms as well (though their work differs in some ways from what SF firms do) and you'll get some decent class sizes (20-30ish) from the SV natives (WSGR, Fenwick, Cooley) as well as a few more outpost offices that have the 5-10 range.

WSGR had like 50 SA's this year.

[piccolittle]

I like how the very first sentence at your NYTimes link about why Oakland is nice references violence:

"Tensions have cooled since violence erupted at the recent Occupy Oakland protests, but the city’s revitalized night-life scene has continued to smolder. "

Watching the SJ news right now, and its actually a segment about violence in Oakland. And I quote: "it has been seven murders in seven days in Oakland." Jeebus.

[Anonymous User]

(Different anon)

Oh and which firms have the biggest SA classes there? It seems like most are pretty small.

To add to what the above anon said: if you really want to work in the Bay Area I suggest being open to the SV firms as well (though their work differs in some ways from what SF firms do) and you'll get some decent class sizes (20-30ish) from the SV natives (WSGR, Fenwick, Cooley) as well as a few more outpost offices that have the 5-10 range.

WSGR had like 50 SA's this year.

believe it was 44 to be exact. which strikes me as way too much. much larger then prior class years and with the economy as shaky as it is, seems a bit reckless to me.

[Anonymous User]

What's the lowdown on Jones Day SV?

JD Summer at a different office, but from a local school and have had lots of contact with them that way.

The people are uniformly great-- partners, associates & recruiting staff. (At least the ones I know).

The work tends to be a good mix of corporate and litigation. A lot of PE/VC/M&A work, but not the blockbuster stuff like Facebook. The stuff I know about is usually representing big business in the acquisition of smaller/startups, but they also did the SAP/Ariba deal ($4B). JD really does do the "One Firm Worldwide" so they probably have their fingers in a lot of projects that may not be resident there. The office is only 12 years old, but it is growing. Strong connections with SF office (also growing, pretty rapidly).

Anything specific you'd like to know? I'll do my best.

[meownation]

A fellow bay area person here: just to warn the two people that haven't heard that oakland is legitimately very dangerous so you may pay less to live there but with good reason. Berkeley is an ok place to be if want to be in the east bay and it is also a quick ride into the embarcadero.

Just want to correct this statement. Different anon (anon because mentioning partners at my SF firm). There are parts of Oakland that are "legitimately very dangerous." Oakland can be a great bang for your buck if you avoid the "dangerous" areas-- plenty of partners at my SF firm live in Oakland.

Also, Oakland is #5 top place to visit according to the New York Times (http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/tr ... wanted=all).

As someone who went to high school in Oakland, I want to add on this and mention that many of us in the Bay Area see certain neighborhoods in Oakland as the most fun and up-and-coming. There remain many dangerous neighborhoods, but areas like Temescal, Uptown and even around Lake Merritt are getting a lot of cool bars and restaurants, for much better value than SF. I know many people who work in SF but live near a BART station in Oakland to save money and experience different parts of the Bay.

[fish52]

I understand that SF firms are all about ties. Did you grow up there? How is the work or lifestyle different than in, say, NY? Sorry if those are incredibly vague and/or unanswerable...

Work is different here in a couple of ways. First, the hours are lower, which is kind of a given. The work schedule is different too; folks roll in at 8, 8:30 and leave at 5:30 or so, as opposed to the 9:30 - 6:30 schedule in NYC.

Is this accurate? Those seem like very short hours.

[Anonymous User]

Any idea about the selectivity of Fenwick & West (Mountain View) from H?

[englawyer]

Any idea about the selectivity of Fenwick & West (Mountain View) from H?

generally its not too selective. however they had too many peeps accept offer this year so it might be tough for next year

[Emma.]

I understand that SF firms are all about ties. Did you grow up there? How is the work or lifestyle different than in, say, NY? Sorry if those are incredibly vague and/or unanswerable...

Work is different here in a couple of ways. First, the hours are lower, which is kind of a given. The work schedule is different too; folks roll in at 8, 8:30 and leave at 5:30 or so, as opposed to the 9:30 - 6:30 schedule in NYC.

Is this accurate? Those seem like very short hours.

In my experience partners tend to do 7a - 5p, associates are more like 9:30a - 7:30p, or if they leave earlier then the are logging on from home later that evening.

[Anonymous User]

I understand that SF firms are all about ties. Did you grow up there? How is the work or lifestyle different than in, say, NY? Sorry if those are incredibly vague and/or unanswerable...

Work is different here in a couple of ways. First, the hours are lower, which is kind of a given. The work schedule is different too; folks roll in at 8, 8:30 and leave at 5:30 or so, as opposed to the 9:30 - 6:30 schedule in NYC.

Is this accurate? Those seem like very short hours.

I'm doing 8:30 - 5ish this summer (once a week I'll stay until 6) and I'm not particularly efficient. The attorneys in the office assigning me work probably go 8 - 6 with some work from home. Nearly all the partners and associates in my office have kids and a family, so the place is fairly deserted by 6 when I have stayed. Most are probably doing some work from home though.

[Anonymous User]

Do SF firms take non-OCI apps seriously? I am in the top 10% at a t-30 (with Law Review and lots of good work experience) and I am originally from SF (all my family is there). I was shocked I already got a rejection from Pillsbury telling me their spots were all taken! How long does it usually take for firms to reply? Any advice for those trying to get firms' attention?

I've been mass mailing SF with some success. Keep trying - some firms are more responsive than others.

If it's okay for me to ask... Any particular firms that have been responsive? Which school or T are you from? When did you apply? I've applied to probably 15 on my own, if you consider the SF and Silicon Valley offices of one firm as one (I've taken the time to personalize each one). I've applied to another 6 through my school's OCI, but I haven't heard back yet as bidding is still open. I will also apply to another 15 or so firms on my own.

[Anonymous User]

Whoops, meant to edit the above post...

[Anonymous User]

Do SF firms take non-OCI apps seriously? I am in the top 10% at a t-30 (with Law Review and lots of good work experience) and I am originally from SF (all my family is there). I was shocked I already got a rejection from Pillsbury telling me their spots were all taken! How long does it usually take for firms to reply? Any advice for those trying to get firms' attention?

Judging from NALP, Pillsbury has a really small class size. It's kind of weird they are already all taken though, I don't know why they are even bothering coming to my OCI then.

I think they were lying. I think that for whatever reason, they didn't want to consider me, as they plan to fill their ranks through OCI. There's no way their class is filled. I don't know how they could find my credentials "impressive" as they said but not interview me this early in the process.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know anything about Coblentz? Do they pay market? They are apparently not hiring now, but I'm trying to decide whether I should get in touch with them about potential post-clerkship hiring.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know anything about Coblentz? Do they pay market? They are apparently not hiring now, but I'm trying to decide whether I should get in touch with them about potential post-clerkship hiring.

I know they don't hire summers, but if you do talk to them, any info about their future hiring would be much appreciated.

[Neatrends]

Correct me if I'm wrong but with what seem like more relaxed hours in bay area firms, being paid market rate in SF/SV is actually a way better deal than the same in NYC, right?

[sundance95]

For a non IPer who wants lit only, would it be a mistake to go to SF instead of LA? I'd love SF but I'm worried that the market is a bad long term decision for a non IPer. All thoughts appreciated.

[anon168]

Correct me if I'm wrong but with what seem like more relaxed hours in bay area firms, being paid market rate in SF/SV is actually a way better deal than the same in NYC, right?

In many ways the COL in SF is greater than NYC.

[anon168]

For a non IPer who wants lit only, would it be a mistake to go to SF instead of LA? Bay Area native top 10% at MVP, I'd love SF but I'mworried that the market is a bad long term decision for a non IPer. All thoughts appreciated.

SF is just fine for non-IP work.

[Anonymous User]

For a non IPer who wants lit only, would it be a mistake to go to SF instead of LA? Bay Area native top 10% at MVP, I'd love SF but I'mworried that the market is a bad long term decision for a non IPer. All thoughts appreciated.

SF is just fine for non-IP work.

Yup, I agree. I have no interest whatsoever in IP, and came to SF over NYC, DC, and LA.

[Anonymous User]

How about an IP kid from lower T14 (Phd in science), above median grades (lower than 30%) LR, with no ties to SF?

I am actually also interested in IP transactions and corporate stuff.

[Anonymous User]

How about an IP kid from lower T14 (Phd in science), above median grades (lower than 30%) LR, with no ties to SF?

I am actually also interested in IP transactions and corporate stuff.

I'd heavily bid the Valley firms. There aren't a ton of people interested in IP corp work, from my experience, and I think those stats are competitive for any firm out here. There's less of that work in SF, but it definitely exists (my own firm's SF office is probably 1/6 IP Corp attorneys, which seems fairly standard).

Mail any firm that has an IP transactions practice and more than 2-3 summers, and bid them at OCI, but have a backup city as well.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks a lot!!

How about an IP kid from lower T14 (Phd in science), above median grades (lower than 30%) LR, with no ties to SF?

I am actually also interested in IP transactions and corporate stuff.

I'd heavily bid the Valley firms. There aren't a ton of people interested in IP corp work, from my experience, and I think those stats are competitive for any firm out here. There's less of that work in SF, but it definitely exists (my own firm's SF office is probably 1/6 IP Corp attorneys, which seems fairly standard).

Mail any firm that has an IP transactions practice and more than 2-3 summers, and bid them at OCI, but have a backup city as well.

[Anonymous User]

I would much prefer to be in SF or SV, but first and foremost want to make sure I get a market-paying job. Would otherwise be fine with NYC. Very few concrete ties to the Bay Area, besides some family in the area. Top 15%, DCNG. Any suggestions on bidding strategy as it concerns firms with large offices in both NYC and the Bay Area (i.e., Latham, Kirkland, DPW/STB to some extent).

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

I had a similar focus and just split bids equally between NY and SV/SF. Ended up with offers in both markets but was very glad to have some safety with the larger offices of the NY firms. I think general TLS wisdom is that you want to tell a given firm that you are only interested in one market because of the work culture, your significant ties, passion for the type of practice, etc. It is ok to say you are interested in more than one office, but that is a little risky according to some people.