Competitive for Kirkland from UIUC/Illinois? Forum

[PlessFightsFire]

Does anyone know what kind of numbers you need from Illinois to be competitive for an SA from Kirkland?

And if you wouldn't mind giving me a sense of where I stand that would be helpful
- Top 10%
- 3 years WE
- Don't know about law review
- No connections to the firm

Any help would be appreciated in terms of how we actually place and where I stand. Its just really hard to have an idea what UIUC does since we place barely over 11% in NLJ 250.

[blurbz]

Kirkland took a ton of people from Illinois last year, but I'm pretty sure you need a journal to be competitive. Top 10% is good, though, and your work experience may help.

[PlessFightsFire]

I only know of two, any idea what the full number was?

[Ludo!]

There is an Illinois questions thread for stuff like this but yes you're competitive. Law review is probably a must. The only person I know who got Kirkland without law review was IP. I think the number was four last year but don't know for sure how many people accepted offers

[Ludo!]

Also as far as I can tell from who got offers work experience wasn't particularly relevant and 'connections' to the firm don't matter at all. And the barely 11% was class of 11, the last two years were about double that.

[Anonymous User]

There is an Illinois questions thread for stuff like this but yes you're competitive. Law review is probably a must. The only person I know who got Kirkland without law review was IP. I think the number was four last year but don't know for sure how many people accepted offers

I think whether law review is a must depends on what department you want to join at Kirkland. If you have decent grades and the right experience, throw your hat in and see what happens.

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland Chicago has 3 in their SA class this year (last I checked, which was a while ago). They may have given offers to a couple more than that who declined. Top 10% is probably not good enough. You better be on LR and have a strong UG (preferably you want IP and have the creds).

[Ludo!]

There is an Illinois questions thread for stuff like this but yes you're competitive. Law review is probably a must. The only person I know who got Kirkland without law review was IP. I think the number was four last year but don't know for sure how many people accepted offers

I think whether law review is a must depends on what departmenmt you want to join at Kirkland. If you have decent grades and the right experience, throw your hat in and see what happens.

It also may just be that you need top grades to get Kirkland and top of the class grades on to Law Review. But totally agree that OP should throw his hat in. You get unlimited bids so there's no reason not to apply

[Ludo!]

Kirkland Chicago has 3 in their SA class this year (last I checked, which was a while ago). They may have given offers to a couple more than that who declined. Top 10% is probably not good enough. You better be on LR and have a strong UG (preferably you want IP and have the creds).

I don't think strong UG is a requirement. One of the SAs I know went to a crappy state school. I interviewed there and I went to a shitty UG

[Anonymous User]

Of 2012 grads from UIUC, anecdotally, one first-year there will have graduated either just outside or just within top 1/3 - i.e., nowhere near top 10%. Also, secondary journal, not Law Review. If you can figure out who he is, get in touch with him because he is very friendly and always seemed open to helping out colleagues, so he may be a decent resource for the inside scoop on how he managed to snag his position. I think it was connections. Just do it after July 25 (bar exam) but before he starts work

[Ludo!]

Of 2012 grads from UIUC, anecdotally, one first-year there will have graduated either just outside or just within top 1/3 - i.e., nowhere near top 10%. Also, secondary journal, not Law Review. If you can figure out who he is, get in touch with him because he is very friendly and always seemed open to helping out colleagues, so he may be a decent resource for the inside scoop on how he managed to snag his position. I think it was connections. Just do it after July 25 (bar exam) but before he starts work

I really wish our career services would send out info like that. What a shame

[Anonymous User]

Of 2012 grads from UIUC, anecdotally, one first-year there will have graduated either just outside or just within top 1/3 - i.e., nowhere near top 10%. Also, secondary journal, not Law Review. If you can figure out who he is, get in touch with him because he is very friendly and always seemed open to helping out colleagues, so he may be a decent resource for the inside scoop on how he managed to snag his position. I think it was connections. Just do it after July 25 (bar exam) but before he starts work

Graduating top 1/3 =/= First year grades were only top 1/3rd. HTH.

[Anonymous User]

To my knowledge, this particular graduate was well below top 1/3 1L year (I hate saying this because he is not an idiot, just did not do well), but I think it's best to be honest here... and he did not summer there (nor did he summer at any biglaw firm 2L summer). Outliers like this are rare, but not as rare as people often assume! I want to add that a lot of students don't put stock in networking until they end up facing unemployment, sitting outside of the top 1/3, scrambling last minute. A lot of other students don't put stock in it at any point because their grades are so fantastic that employment comes easily. But reaching out, keeping in touch with colleagues, and all that can really, really be a saving grace someday. We all go through this together, and most of us are more than happy to help others who are in those shoes we were just in not so long ago (with what little pull or wisdom we have).

A small (small) handful of professors from UIUC also still have friends at these firms - good friends who will listen to them - and can put in a strong word (I know from experience). Develop relationships with them because you never know who knows who.

So, take all that CSO says with a grain of salt, and continue to think for yourself and learn through others, whether your classmates, alumni, friends of friends, professors, whoever.

Even if you are in the top 10%. It's never going to hurt you to have friends. It's never going to hurt to develop mentor-mentee relationships with people of all ages and in all positions. And if you are a 1L, start now. Even if not immediately, years from now, you'll be glad you did.

[Anonymous User]

Last note - to stay relevant to this thread - questions regarding where you might be competitive could be best answered by alumni of ours in those firms. You won't lose anything by shooting one an e-mail, asking if they would be willing to speak with you about employment at X firm (here, K&E). (From what I've heard, our CSO basically does the same - meets with alum and asks them these questions. I'd imagine that firms like to boast to career placement folks, but may be more honest or open-lipped to a bright-eyed, bushy-tailed student like yourself.)

[Anonymous User]

To my knowledge, this particular graduate was well below top 1/3 1L year (I hate saying this because he is not an idiot, just did not do well), but I think it's best to be honest here... and he did not summer there (nor did he summer at any biglaw firm 2L summer). Outliers like this are rare, but not as rare as people often assume! I want to add that a lot of students don't put stock in networking until they end up facing unemployment, sitting outside of the top 1/3, scrambling last minute. A lot of other students don't put stock in it at any point because their grades are so fantastic that employment comes easily. But reaching out, keeping in touch with colleagues, and all that can really, really be a saving grace someday. We all go through this together, and most of us are more than happy to help others who are in those shoes we were just in not so long ago (with what little pull or wisdom we have).

A small (small) handful of professors from UIUC also still have friends at these firms - good friends who will listen to them - and can put in a strong word (I know from experience). Develop relationships with them because you never know who knows who.

So, take all that CSO says with a grain of salt, and continue to think for yourself and learn through others, whether your classmates, alumni, friends of friends, professors, whoever.

Even if you are in the top 10%. It's never going to hurt you to have friends. It's never going to hurt to develop mentor-mentee relationships with people of all ages and in all positions. And if you are a 1L, start now. Even if not immediately, years from now, you'll be glad you did.

Can you elaborate a little more on this guy? Was he IP? What sort of work did he do his 2L summer and what kind of grades did he get after 1L year? Anything else special that he did?

[Anonymous User]

Here is what I am comfortable divulging: not IP. Edged into top 1/3 or maybe lingered just below it over his last two years. Anything special he did? From my POV, knows how to talk to and get support from the right people, has an abundance of confidence, and likely played up his strengths enough to get hired although below par for the firm in terms of pure numbers.

I know a few others like this, who obtained summer work at Chicago biglaw at the lower end of top 1/3 (or maybe just outside of it) as rising 2Ls. Kept the jobs just fine. One graduated well below top 1/3 and will be at one of those firms everyone thinks hires only top 10% from our school, was on secondary journal, and was never published. What makes certain students special enough that firms bend the "rules" for them? I'm not sure. They are good and nice people and deserve to be where they are regardless. And maybe that's just what it came down to - sociability and "clicking" with attorneys at these firms.

You'll see this happen with your own classmates. I don't know that there's any big secret - just luck.

Moral of story: UIUC places really well in Chicago biglaw - and if you're in or a little outside the top 1/3, you really do have a chance. You don't lose all of your cards just because you're not at a 3.45 or wherever that marker is anymore! Just get out there and try.

Edit: removed some information to keep anonymity.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, so people outside the top 1/3 at UIUC have connections. I mean, connections. So as you didn't indicate that you have that in OP, you won't get it. And yes, a good number of SAs get in through connections. But unless you have them (and you'd know it by know if you did), you have to go the ordinary way.

As for UG, there are of course exceptions. But the fact that you "interviewed" there, or that one SA got one from a bad UG, doesn't make the advice wrong.

Enjoy SNRDenton.

[Anonymous User]

Oh wow - I don't know that it's really that fatalistic. These students' connections did NOT originate before law school, that I can say for certain. Mainly during, and that is if at all. When I say "connections," I mean, a slowly developed semi-casual but not really "deep" type of connection. Just a few phone conversations with an alum, or having taken a class with a professor whose really good buddy is a partner at X firm. Again, if at all.

Different people have had different experiences, even at the same school and in the same market, it seems. My viewpoint differs from the above Anon. Maybe I'm not in a bad place, and I'm just not jaded because I enjoyed my experience and believe in the value of trying to make those connections (as opposed to giving up if you don't have any yet)... In other words, OP, you HAVE connections to K&E, in the form of alum. That's just my opinion. So just bid it and try and reach out! Or do whatever you feel is right for you.

[Anonymous User]

I second the above poster's sentiment. I know a recent grad who couldn't get a biglaw job his 2L summer. Had decent grades but just bombed the interviews. Ended up getting an internship in Chicago, and decided he was going to network like crazy. He had no connections, but he ended up with 3 big time offers (KE was the lowest ranked of the 3), all as a result of his networking and relentlessness. Granted, his grades were awesome his 2L year, but still, the networking was what got him the interviews.

[Ludo!]

This thread has some of the stupidest anon abuse I've ever seen. You have to hide your online persona to tell us you know a guy at Kirkland? You have to be anonymous to tell someone in the top 10% that they won't get better than SNRDenton? That's retarded. People in the top 10% at Illinois got offers all over the vault rankings including every top firm in Chicago.

And UG school doesn't mean anything. Sure I just have anecdotal evidence, but where is your evidence that it matters? Top UGs are well represented in biglaw because those people tend to go to top law schools as well. But I've never heard of a single case, even anecdotally, of a person with great grades not getting a job because of their UG.

[Anonymous User]

This thread has some of the stupidest anon abuse I've ever seen. You have to hide your online persona to tell us you know a guy at Kirkland? You have to be anonymous to tell someone in the top 10% that they won't get better than SNRDenton? That's retarded. People in the top 10% at Illinois got offers all over the vault rankings including every top firm in Chicago.

And UG school doesn't mean anything. Sure I just have anecdotal evidence, but where is your evidence that it matters? Top UGs are well represented in biglaw because those people tend to go to top law schools as well. But I've never heard of a single case, even anecdotally, of a person with great grades not getting a job because of their UG.

Some of us are attorneys at Kirkland.

[Ludo!]

I was referring more to the enjoySNRdenton guy. If that dude is a kirkland attorney then kirkland hired a douche