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Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:34 am**

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:10 pm**

Definitely play up your IP interest, it's a super hot field right now. However, LA is not where that field is. You should be shooting for either NY, Palo Alto or SF.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:16 pm**

Looks like a good list

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:18 pm**

azntwice wrote:Definitely play up your IP interest, it's a super hot field right now. However, LA is not where that field is. You should be shooting for either NY, Palo Alto or SF.

I agree but I really prefer to be in LA.

For me, it goes LA > > > > > > SF > > Palo Alto > NY

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:37 pm**

But as he's just told you, that doesn't really matter. If you want IP lit, it isn't in LA outside of very limited entertainment law IP and places like Irell that you probably aren't getting.

Don't make the mistake others have of striking out because of zero flexibility. Like it or not, the jobs are in NY. Very few jobs in SF/SV period, and few in your interest areas in LA. Maybe look at OC/SD a little more if you want to compromise a bit.

Paul Hastings is an LA-based firm that you might consider if you really want to be in LA. Maybe put it higher?

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:57 pm**

But as he's just told you, that doesn't really matter. If you want IP lit, it isn't in LA outside of very limited entertainment law IP and places like Irell that you probably aren't getting.

Don't make the mistake others have of striking out because of zero flexibility. Like it or not, the jobs are in NY. Very few jobs in SF/SV period, and few in your interest areas in LA. Maybe look at OC/SD a little more if you want to compromise a bit.

Paul Hastings is an LA-based firm that you might consider if you really want to be in LA. Maybe put it higher?

Hmmmmmmmmm... interesting.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:59 pm**

wiseowl wrote:But as he's just told you, that doesn't really matter. If you want IP lit, it isn't in LA outside of very limited entertainment law IP and places like Irell that you probably aren't getting.

Don't make the mistake others have of striking out because of zero flexibility. Like it or not, the jobs are in NY. Very few jobs in SF/SV period, and few in your interest areas in LA. Maybe look at OC/SD a little more if you want to compromise a bit.

Paul Hastings is an LA-based firm that you might consider if you really want to be in LA. Maybe put it higher?

Paul Hastings LA office contains zero IP lawyers (according to the NALP directory). I only added them because of the name recognition and the fact they have 1 tax partner.

Where did you get your information about LA firms being strongly non-IP? I mainly used the NALP directory (which I understand may not be perfect), and mainly chose firms with 5+ partners and 5+ attorneys doing IP litigation. I also looked at the firm's website at a few firms and see the number of attorneys doing IP litigation in the LA office. I did this blindly for every firm coming to our OCI in both LA, SF, SD and NY before ranking them. To make the ranks, I chose based on location, selectivity, firm size, and available slots. I mean, if you have contradictory data though, I'd like to see it. Haha this sounds like me getting really defensive (and I probably am) but I'm being quite genuine here - I would really like to see some data so I could make a good choice.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:26 pm**

Anonymous User wrote:
wiseowl wrote:But as he's just told you, that doesn't really matter. If you want IP lit, it isn't in LA outside of very limited entertainment law IP and places like Irell that you probably aren't getting.

Don't make the mistake others have of striking out because of zero flexibility. Like it or not, the jobs are in NY. Very few jobs in SF/SV period, and few in your interest areas in LA. Maybe look at OC/SD a little more if you want to compromise a bit.

Paul Hastings is an LA-based firm that you might consider if you really want to be in LA. Maybe put it higher?
Paul Hastings LA office contains zero IP lawyers (according to the NALP directory). I only added them because of the name recognition and the fact they have 1 tax partner.

Where did you get your information about LA firms being strongly non-IP? I mainly used the NALP directory (which I understand may not be perfect), and mainly chose firms with 5+ partners and 5+ attorneys doing IP litigation. I also looked at the firm's website at a few firms and see the number of attorneys doing IP litigation in the LA office. I did this blindly for every firm coming to our OCI in both LA, SF, SD and NY before ranking them. To make the ranks, I chose based on location, selectivity, firm size, and available slots. I mean, if you have contradictory data though, I'd like to see it. Haha this sounds like me getting really defensive (and I probably am) but I'm being quite genuine here - I would really like to see some data so I could make a good choice.

Paul Hastings' website lists 9 lawyers in the LA office that do IP.

That said, this example illustrates part of the problem with this. NALP and websites don't mean much of anything. If a partner handled a case or two twenty years ago that related to IP somehow they might well put "IP" as a practice area tag. Doesn't mean they do it on a daily basis at all.

I'll say up front that I, and many others, for the most part consider "IP litigation" to essentially mean patent litigation. Is there copyright and trademark litigation going on? Of course. Is a decent percentage of that work being done in LA? Yep. But search for "soft IP" on this forum or on any other law-related forum. Soft IP lit is a fraction, and a tiny one, of the jobs in the nebulous "IP litigation" category. Patent litigation is done out of NY, SF/SV, and DC in the highest quantities.

And I'll be frank, and I apologize for doing so, but you're below median. I know it's at NYU, but still...these jobs are highly sought after by people throughout the country with tiptop grades. Without relevant work experience, you will quite possibly struggle.

I'm really not trying to argue with you, puncture your dreams, etc. I just have seen a lot of people head in to OCI wanting to work on copyrights and trademarks and it's simply not that easy.

I'm studying for the bar so I can't compile much more "data" for you...that's up to you. But I am someone going into IP litigation at a v100 firm.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:36 pm**

wiseowl wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
wiseowl wrote:But as he's just told you, that doesn't really matter. If you want IP lit, it isn't in LA outside of very limited entertainment law IP and places like Irell that you probably aren't getting.

Don't make the mistake others have of striking out because of zero flexibility. Like it or not, the jobs are in NY. Very few jobs in SF/SV period, and few in your interest areas in LA. Maybe look at OC/SD a little more if you want to compromise a bit.

Paul Hastings is an LA-based firm that you might consider if you really want to be in LA. Maybe put it higher?
Paul Hastings LA office contains zero IP lawyers (according to the NALP directory). I only added them because of the name recognition and the fact they have 1 tax partner.

Where did you get your information about LA firms being strongly non-IP? I mainly used the NALP directory (which I understand may not be perfect), and mainly chose firms with 5+ partners and 5+ attorneys doing IP litigation. I also looked at the firm's website at a few firms and see the number of attorneys doing IP litigation in the LA office. I did this blindly for every firm coming to our OCI in both LA, SF, SD and NY before ranking them. To make the ranks, I chose based on location, selectivity, firm size, and available slots. I mean, if you have contradictory data though, I'd like to see it. Haha this sounds like me getting really defensive (and I probably am) but I'm being quite genuine here - I would really like to see some data so I could make a good choice.
Paul Hastings' website lists 9 lawyers in the LA office that do IP.

That said, this example illustrates part of the problem with this. NALP and websites don't mean much of anything. If a partner handled a case or two twenty years ago that related to IP somehow they might well put "IP" as a practice area tag. Doesn't mean they do it on a daily basis at all.

I'll say up front that I, and many others, for the most part consider "IP litigation" to essentially mean patent litigation. Is there copyright and trademark litigation going on? Of course. Is a decent percentage of that work being done in LA? Yep. But search for "soft IP" on this forum or on any other law-related forum. Soft IP lit is a fraction, and a tiny one, of the jobs in the nebulous "IP litigation" category. Patent litigation is done out of NY, SF/SV, and DC in the highest quantities.

And I'll be frank, and I apologize for doing so, but you're below median. I know it's at NYU, but still...these jobs are highly sought after by people throughout the country with tiptop grades. Without relevant work experience, you will quite possibly struggle.

I'm really not trying to argue with you, puncture your dreams, etc. I just have seen a lot of people head in to OCI wanting to work on copyrights and trademarks and it's simply not that easy.

I'm studying for the bar so I can't compile much more "data" for you...that's up to you. But I am someone going into IP litigation at a v100 firm.

hmmm fair enough. So would you recommend that I move more of those bottom NY firms to the top? Or try and go through the OCI bidlist again? I researched most, if not all, of the firms on the list the OCI list and had a pretty big compilation. Are there any firms that stick out to you that I should definitely boost? Or that I should add/delete?

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:41 pm**

Anonymous User wrote:
wiseowl wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
wiseowl wrote:But as he's just told you, that doesn't really matter. If you want IP lit, it isn't in LA outside of very limited entertainment law IP and places like Irell that you probably aren't getting.

Don't make the mistake others have of striking out because of zero flexibility. Like it or not, the jobs are in NY. Very few jobs in SF/SV period, and few in your interest areas in LA. Maybe look at OC/SD a little more if you want to compromise a bit.

Paul Hastings is an LA-based firm that you might consider if you really want to be in LA. Maybe put it higher?
Paul Hastings LA office contains zero IP lawyers (according to the NALP directory). I only added them because of the name recognition and the fact they have 1 tax partner.

Where did you get your information about LA firms being strongly non-IP? I mainly used the NALP directory (which I understand may not be perfect), and mainly chose firms with 5+ partners and 5+ attorneys doing IP litigation. I also looked at the firm's website at a few firms and see the number of attorneys doing IP litigation in the LA office. I did this blindly for every firm coming to our OCI in both LA, SF, SD and NY before ranking them. To make the ranks, I chose based on location, selectivity, firm size, and available slots. I mean, if you have contradictory data though, I'd like to see it. Haha this sounds like me getting really defensive (and I probably am) but I'm being quite genuine here - I would really like to see some data so I could make a good choice.
Paul Hastings' website lists 9 lawyers in the LA office that do IP.

That said, this example illustrates part of the problem with this. NALP and websites don't mean much of anything. If a partner handled a case or two twenty years ago that related to IP somehow they might well put "IP" as a practice area tag. Doesn't mean they do it on a daily basis at all.

I'll say up front that I, and many others, for the most part consider "IP litigation" to essentially mean patent litigation. Is there copyright and trademark litigation going on? Of course. Is a decent percentage of that work being done in LA? Yep. But search for "soft IP" on this forum or on any other law-related forum. Soft IP lit is a fraction, and a tiny one, of the jobs in the nebulous "IP litigation" category. Patent litigation is done out of NY, SF/SV, and DC in the highest quantities.

And I'll be frank, and I apologize for doing so, but you're below median. I know it's at NYU, but still...these jobs are highly sought after by people throughout the country with tiptop grades. Without relevant work experience, you will quite possibly struggle.

I'm really not trying to argue with you, puncture your dreams, etc. I just have seen a lot of people head in to OCI wanting to work on copyrights and trademarks and it's simply not that easy.

I'm studying for the bar so I can't compile much more "data" for you...that's up to you. But I am someone going into IP litigation at a v100 firm.

hmmm fair enough. So would you recommend that I move more of those bottom NY firms to the top? Or try and go through the OCI bidlist again? I researched most, if not all, of the firms on the list the OCI list and had a pretty big compilation. Are there any firms that stick out to you that I should definitely boost? Or that I should add/delete?

I'm still not clear on what you're actually pursuing. Are you trying for patent litigation or for copyright/TM litigation? Or are you trying for tax stuff?

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:43 pm**

Trying to do patent litigation. And also tax - yeah it's kinda random but I really liked tax.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:54 pm**

A few things. First, if you're bidding on multiple markets, you shouldn't stack them like that, because you risk not getting any bids in one of them -- you should intersperse them again. Also, the sequence seems wrong, in that the NY firms you've listed towards the bottom will probably get snapped up first, while generally IP-only schedules are available with low bids. (You should consult with career services to figure out whether that's the case, but it's likely.) You also should put more SV offices in there to play up IP lit -- realizing you like Tax, but with that GPA, you may want to sell yourself more to IP lit just to get in the door to the best firm possible (and if you do well in 2L, then maybe try to get into another firm as a 3L with an offer in hand).

Generally, the firms are ok, witha few omissions, but you should rework the bid order, and also maybe substitute some OC, SD, and SV offices for LA offices, since LA offices tend to be more grade-sensitive & less excited about IP. Remember that in a lottery, your focus is on maximizing interview slots versus slotting in your own personal preferences.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:00 pm**

sbalive wrote:A few things. First, if you're bidding on multiple markets, you shouldn't stack them like that, because you risk not getting any bids in one of them -- you should intersperse them again. Also, the sequence seems wrong, in that the NY firms you've listed towards the bottom will probably get snapped up first, while generally IP-only schedules are available with low bids. (You should consult with career services to figure out whether that's the case, but it's likely.) You also should put more SV offices in there to play up IP lit -- realizing you like Tax, but with that GPA, you may want to sell yourself more to IP lit just to get in the door to the best firm possible (and if you do well in 2L, then maybe try to get into another firm as a 3L with an offer in hand).

Generally, the firms are ok, witha few omissions, but you should rework the bid order, and also maybe substitute some OC, SD, and SV offices for LA offices, since LA offices tend to be more grade-sensitive & less excited about IP. Remember that in a lottery, your focus is on maximizing interview slots versus slotting in your own personal preferences.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:32 pm**

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:03 pm**

Doesn't bidding end at midnight?

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:18 pm**

Anonymous User wrote:Final list:
Rank | Firm | Vault | City
1 | Foley & Lardner LLP | 69 | Los Angeles
2 | Perkins Coie LLP | 67 | Los Angeles
3 | Hunton & Williams LLP | 74 | Los Angeles
4 | Sidley Austin LLP (IP Schedule) | 15 | Los Angeles
5 | Sidley Austin LLP | 15 | New York
6 | Bryan Cave LLP | 72 | Los Angeles
7 | Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP | 59 | Los Angeles
8 | Goodwin Procter LLP | 40 | New York
9 | DLA Piper LLP | 39 | San Francisco
10 | Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati | 47 | Palo Alto, CA
11 | Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP | 36 | San Francisco
12 | White & Case LLP | 17 | New York
13 | Kaye Scholer | 71 | New York
14 | Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP | 88 | New York
15 | Baker Botts L.L.P. (IP Schedule) | 43 | New York
16 | Dechert LLP | 50 | New York
17 | Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP | 36 | New York
18 | Fenwick & West LLP (Tax Only) | 94 | Mountain View, CA
19 | Chadbourne & Parke LLP | 85 | New York
20 | Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP | 45 | New York
21 | Paul Hastings LLP | 29 | Los Angeles
22 | Morrison & Foerster LLP | 24 | Los Angeles
23 | O'Melveny & Myers LLP | 24 | Los Angeles
24 | Winston & Strawn | 46 | Los Angeles
25 | Baker & Hostetler LLP | 68 | Los Angeles
26 | Fulbright & Jaworski LLP | 49 | New York
27 | Pryor Cashman LLP | NA | New York
28 | Baker & McKenzie | 34 | New York
29 | Bingham McCutchen LLP | 56 | New York
30 | Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP | 80 | New York
31 | K&L Gates LLP | 52 | Los Angeles
32 | Holland & Knight LLP | 63 | Los Angeles
33 | Kirkland & Ellis LLP | 9 | Los Angeles
34 | Fish & Richardson P.C. | 65 | San Diego, CA
35 | Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP | 27 | Los Angeles
36 | Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP | 51 | Palo Alto, CA
37 | Ropes & Gray LLP | 36 | Silicon Valley, CA
38 | Proskauer & Rose | 37 | Los Angeles
39 | Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP | 12 | Los Angeles
40 | Latham & Watkins LLP | 10 | Los Angeles
41 | Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton LLP | 92 | Los Angeles
42 | Alston & Bird LLP | 60 | Los Angeles
43 | Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton LLP | NA | San Francisco
44 | Jones Day | 19 | San Francisco
45 | Schiff Hardin LLP | NA | San Francisco, CA
46 | Weil, Gotshal & Manges (IP Schedule) | 6 | New York
47 | Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP | 33 | New York
48 | Bracewell & Giuliani LLP | 84 | New York
49 | Brown Rudnick Berlack Israels | NA | New York
50 | Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP | 31 | New York

Any suggestions still welcome but I think I'm done (have to eat lunch soon and bidding will probably end by the time I come back). Thanks to all who helped.

Try lobbing in your resume to Fross Zelnick (copyright/tm boutique in NYC) if things don't go well. You are bidding in a fairly scattered fashion so things frankly may not go great

Also Roberts and Holland should be on anyone's list if interested in tax

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:21 pm**

Anonymous User wrote:Doesn't bidding end at midnight?

July 5, 6:00 PM EST

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:22 pm**

itbdvorm wrote: Try lobbing in your resume to Fross Zelnick (copyright/tm boutique in NYC) if things don't go well. You are bidding in a fairly scattered fashion so things frankly may not go great

Also Roberts and Holland should be on anyone's list if interested in tax

Can you explain what you mean by bidding fairly scattered and what can I do to fix this issue...?

Roberts & Holland has far too high of a GPA cutoff and it's not worth throwing a bid at them.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:25 pm**

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Doesn't bidding end at midnight?
July 5, 6:00 PM EST

On symplicity it definitely says July 05, 11:59 p.m.

It doesn't really matter to me, I'm done. Just passing that along. Might as well have everything in by 6 to be safe I guess.

Edit: According to the email that just went out bidding ends at 6:00. Just thought I would mention that to avoid confusion for people.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:24 pm**

Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote: Try lobbing in your resume to Fross Zelnick (copyright/tm boutique in NYC) if things don't go well. You are bidding in a fairly scattered fashion so things frankly may not go great

Also Roberts and Holland should be on anyone's list if interested in tax
Can you explain what you mean by bidding fairly scattered and what can I do to fix this issue...?

Roberts & Holland has far too high of a GPA cutoff and it's not worth throwing a bid at them.

Most people have at least a target market or a target practice area (or some degree of complementariness between a couple). Your practice areas are widely divergent and so are your markets. You're better off taking a rifle approach than a shotgun.

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3.21 NYU, IP Litigation or Tax interest, Bid List Critique Forum

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