HLS--trying to figure out markets Forum

[Anonymous User]

As a median HLSer from last year (2H, 1 DS, 7P), I think whether to bid on DC is entirely dependent on whether you are doing it 1) to see if you can get Williams & Connolly, etc., or 2) because you NEED to be in DC.

If you are applying to 20 NYC firms, and don't care what city you go to, don't waste bids on the top 3 DC firms if you're median at HLS. You (most likely) will strike out.

On the other hand, if you (like I was) are in the position of really having to be in DC, due to family/significant other, then it is fine at median to go all-in for DC. I did. Do not to expect that you're going to get any of the top firms. From what I can recall, there are more than enough DC firms/offices to fill a bidlist at EIP; in addition, you should be sending out mailed applications to the smaller DC firms that do not come to EIP. I did not bid on W&C or Covington. But I did bid on (and did a screener with) about 32 DC firms. I got 13 callbacks, went to 8, and got 5 offers. Not all from my dream firms, but all from firms I would be happy to work at if I preferred a DC biglaw firm to a NYC biglaw firm.

Point is, if you have a legitimate reason to need to go to DC, some of the above advice (e.g., about striking out with the top 5 firms in DC) is not applicable, because you can be much more aggressive about bidding more realistically and about mailing firms, and because the point is to get A JOB, not your DREAM JOB. obviously this is just my experience, but I wanted to counteract a bit the "Don't bid on DC" advice (which is 100% valid for someone who doesn't care where they go, but perhaps too conservative for someone who really cares more about going to DC than about which firm they go to).

[Anonymous User]

As a median HLSer from last year (2H, 1 DS, 7P),.

Isn't that above median? (slightly)

[Anonymous User]

As another point of reference, one of my section-mates with 3 H's after 1L and no ties is working at a DC V20 this summer (not Gibson, but I know someone with 5 H's and no DC ties who got that too). DC is obviously a tougher nut to crack but most people I know who bid it seriously got something.

[Anonymous User]

SF and DC I've heard are brutal, but why would we lump Boston in with these for HLS students? A partner from Ropes bragged to a lunch this fall that they "hire more HLS grads than any other firm in the world," and that's at the top of the Boston heap. Is this conservative advice just from a perspective of Boston more stringently requiring "ties" than places such as NYC? Or are Boston firms really going to be as particular on grades as DC or SF?

[AllTheLawz]

SF and DC I've heard are brutal, but why would we lump Boston in with these for HLS students? A partner from Ropes bragged to a lunch this fall that they "hire more HLS grads than any other firm in the world," and that's at the top of the Boston heap. Is this conservative advice just from a perspective of Boston more stringently requiring "ties" than places such as NYC? Or are Boston firms really going to be as particular on grades as DC or SF?

This thread is extremely wrong with respect to Boston... Any grade range short of LPs is competitive in Boston as long as you arent shooting for only Ropes/Wilmer/Goodwin

[Anonymous User]

SF and DC I've heard are brutal, but why would we lump Boston in with these for HLS students? A partner from Ropes bragged to a lunch this fall that they "hire more HLS grads than any other firm in the world," and that's at the top of the Boston heap. Is this conservative advice just from a perspective of Boston more stringently requiring "ties" than places such as NYC? Or are Boston firms really going to be as particular on grades as DC or SF?

This thread is extremely wrong with respect to Boston... Any grade range short of LPs is competitive in Boston as long as you arent shooting for only Ropes/Wilmer/Goodwin

At what point grade-wise do you think Boston's big three become a real stretch for someone at HLS? Or is there a lot of latitude depending on interviewing skills?

[delusional]

SF and DC I've heard are brutal, but why would we lump Boston in with these for HLS students? A partner from Ropes bragged to a lunch this fall that they "hire more HLS grads than any other firm in the world," and that's at the top of the Boston heap. Is this conservative advice just from a perspective of Boston more stringently requiring "ties" than places such as NYC? Or are Boston firms really going to be as particular on grades as DC or SF?

This thread is extremely wrong with respect to Boston... Any grade range short of LPs is competitive in Boston as long as you arent shooting for only Ropes/Wilmer/Goodwin

At what point grade-wise do you think Boston's big three become a real stretch for someone at HLS? Or is there a lot of latitude depending on interviewing skills?

With the usual disclaimer about being only a rising 2L, I spoke to people who worked at Ropes and Wilmer and it seems that Wilmer is somewhat more selective (makes sense - their summer class is smaller) and that median is not an unreasonable reach for both of them. Goodwin seems less selective than those, although it may still be a tiny reach. I don't know the exact levels at which they will no longer seriously consider anyone, but common sense dictates that if people are saying that they're selective but not unreasonably so, chances go down as grades go farther below median.

[Anonymous User]

SF and DC I've heard are brutal, but why would we lump Boston in with these for HLS students? A partner from Ropes bragged to a lunch this fall that they "hire more HLS grads than any other firm in the world," and that's at the top of the Boston heap. Is this conservative advice just from a perspective of Boston more stringently requiring "ties" than places such as NYC? Or are Boston firms really going to be as particular on grades as DC or SF?

This thread is extremely wrong with respect to Boston... Any grade range short of LPs is competitive in Boston as long as you arent shooting for only Ropes/Wilmer/Goodwin

At what point grade-wise do you think Boston's big three become a real stretch for someone at HLS? Or is there a lot of latitude depending on interviewing skills?

My current boss is former WilmerHale partner (who was there very recently). Wilmer is by far the most selective of the big three and has gotten significantly more so in the last few years. According to my boss, there is a fair amount of latitude for someone from HLS but it has to do with things like work experience and presenting yourself as a very mature candidate. For an average K-JD student, things will be tough (though not unheard of) from median.

[Anonymous User]

At barely above median, I would avoid every market you've listed. At most, spend a 2-3 bids on each. But the bulk of your bids should be on NYC.

Almost any major firm is DC is likely out of the picture due to sheer selectivity. DC doesn't care about ties; it's similar to NYC in that regard.

The other markets are a little easier to crack, and if you have SIGNIFICANT ties, then you might gamble a little more on those markets. But none will be easier than NYC.

I can't speak LA/SF, but here's how I would list the most competitive firms in the other markets.

DC: Williams & Connolly, Covington, WilmerHale

Boston: Ropes & Gray

NYC: Wachtell, Cravath, and S&C

Bizarre anti-WilmerHale Boston trolling.

[Doorkeeper]

Bro (or bro-ette), you just bumped a year old thread for that?