Top Law Schools

can i bid on any top 10 firms, or what's the highest firms it makes sense to bid on? obviously wachtell is out but can i bid on cravath or davis polk? other people in similar positions: where did you end up?

I know kids who had approx 3.5 GPAs who are at essentially all of the V10 firms. You can bid on essentially anything and at least be in the running.

You won't be screened out by anyone on account of GPA. Apply anyplace that interests you. Wachtell is never a lock, no matter what your GPA, but your grades won't get your resume thrown in the trash.

ninny wrote:can i bid on any top 10 firms, or what's the highest firms it makes sense to bid on? obviously wachtell is out but can i bid on cravath or davis polk? other people in similar positions: where did you end up?

Had almost identical GPA to you, no callbacks at DPW, STB, Cleary but had a lot of success in the lower V10-15 range (the Kirklands, Paul Weisses, etc.). I think a couple of bad interviews held me back at those spots, though, and I definitely know people with similar or lower GPAs who got offers.

Short answer, it's worth bidding everywhere. Based on what I know, you have an outside chance at Cravath and S&C, a decent chance at DPW and STB, and are very likely to end up with an offer at at least one of Skadden/Weil/Kirkland/Latham/PW/Debevoise.

what rank is that? I'd say you have a shot at the entire V10 (sans WLRK) and really like your chances if you have one of >2 years substantive WE or URM. Maybe not Cravath or S&C, but still worth bids and I'd say they are in play.

To answer the previous poster's question, 3.56 is probably around top 20%.

I'm in a similar situation as OP. Assuming we have a decent shot at an offer, how aggressively should we bid on V10-V15 firms? Should we be ranking firms like Debevoise, Paul Weiss, and Simspon in the top 15ish to ensure we get interviews? Or try to secure 20-25 less selective firms before we think about bidding on the more elite firms?

And, on a side note, do we even have a prayer at the more selective DC firms?

Anonymous User wrote:To answer the previous poster's question, 3.56 is probably around top 20%.

I'm in a similar situation as OP. Assuming we have a decent shot at an offer, how aggressively should we bid on V10-V15 firms? Should we be ranking firms like Debevoise, Paul Weiss, and Simspon in the top 15ish to ensure we get interviews? Or try to secure 20-25 less selective firms before we think about bidding on the more elite firms?

And, on a side note, do we even have a prayer at the more selective DC firms?

Rising NYU 3L here.

In general, the more selective the firm, the lower you can bid them. You could probably get an interview at Wachtell by throwing it in at 45 or something. Your top 10-15 bids should be the firms that are both well-regarded places and within striking distance for a large number of NYU students: Sidley, Jones Day, Milbank, Shearman, Ropes (very popular, should probably be in your top 5 or 10), etc.

However, there are three, at least, factors you want to balance this general advice against: number of interview slots, subjective popularity, and what I'll call the Prestige/Selectiveness Ratio (PSR).

Firms that have high PSRs include places like Weil, Skadden, Kirkland and Latham. You need to prioritize these firms if you want interviews, even though they will interview a relatively large number of students. Lots of people feel that they would have no shot at a DPW but could get in at Skadden, so they bid Skadden really high. Kirkland is similar; I think you had to bid them #1 or #2 last year to get an interview.

I would say Paul Weiss and Debevoise are also very popular, but are big and don't have the same PSR issue; they are arguably more selective and arguably less prestigious than Weil, Skadden, etc., so you can probably bid them in the ~25 range and get an interview.

I would say most of the 15-25 range should go to places that are a little lower ranked/less selective but still good places to be that will be popular, like Hughes Hubbard, Kramer Levin, the Magic Circle firms, etc., etc.

Once you're in the 30s I would start putting my secondary market bids and try to clean up all of those.

Some of the ones that are more selective AND big you could probably get in the high-30s to 40s. I think I got DPW and STB interviews despite ranking them in the 40s, though I don't remember my bid list that well so don't quote me on that.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:To answer the previous poster's question, 3.56 is probably around top 20%.

I'm in a similar situation as OP. Assuming we have a decent shot at an offer, how aggressively should we bid on V10-V15 firms? Should we be ranking firms like Debevoise, Paul Weiss, and Simspon in the top 15ish to ensure we get interviews? Or try to secure 20-25 less selective firms before we think about bidding on the more elite firms?

And, on a side note, do we even have a prayer at the more selective DC firms?

Rising NYU 3L here.

In general, the more selective the firm, the lower you can bid them. You could probably get an interview at Wachtell by throwing it in at 45 or something. Your top 10-15 bids should be the firms that are both well-regarded places and within striking distance for a large number of NYU students: Sidley, Jones Day, Milbank, Shearman, Ropes (very popular, should probably be in your top 5 or 10), etc.

However, there are three, at least, factors you want to balance this general advice against: number of interview slots, subjective popularity, and what I'll call the Prestige/Selectiveness Ratio (PSR).

Firms that have high PSRs include places like Weil, Skadden, Kirkland and Latham. You need to prioritize these firms if you want interviews, even though they will interview a relatively large number of students. Lots of people feel that they would have no shot at a DPW but could get in at Skadden, so they bid Skadden really high. Kirkland is similar; I think you had to bid them #1 or #2 last year to get an interview.

I would say Paul Weiss and Debevoise are also very popular, but are big and don't have the same PSR issue; they are arguably more selective and arguably less prestigious than Weil, Skadden, etc., so you can probably bid them in the ~25 range and get an interview.

I would say most of the 15-25 range should go to places that are a little lower ranked/less selective but still good places to be that will be popular, like Hughes Hubbard, Kramer Levin, the Magic Circle firms, etc., etc.

Once you're in the 30s I would start putting my secondary market bids and try to clean up all of those.

Some of the ones that are more selective AND big you could probably get in the high-30s to 40s. I think I got DPW and STB interviews despite ranking them in the 40s, though I don't remember my bid list that well so don't quote me on that.

I dunno--Debevoise is a weird animal at NYU; it was on the top of a lot of people's lists last year, and I'd treat it more like Skadden, Kirkland, or Weil. Basically the firms with 60-70 interview slots are the most dangerous in terms of getting cute. Keep those guys in the top 10.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:To answer the previous poster's question, 3.56 is probably around top 20%.

I'm in a similar situation as OP. Assuming we have a decent shot at an offer, how aggressively should we bid on V10-V15 firms? Should we be ranking firms like Debevoise, Paul Weiss, and Simspon in the top 15ish to ensure we get interviews? Or try to secure 20-25 less selective firms before we think about bidding on the more elite firms?

And, on a side note, do we even have a prayer at the more selective DC firms?

Rising NYU 3L here.

In general, the more selective the firm, the lower you can bid them. You could probably get an interview at Wachtell by throwing it in at 45 or something. Your top 10-15 bids should be the firms that are both well-regarded places and within striking distance for a large number of NYU students: Sidley, Jones Day, Milbank, Shearman, Ropes (very popular, should probably be in your top 5 or 10), etc.

However, there are three, at least, factors you want to balance this general advice against: number of interview slots, subjective popularity, and what I'll call the Prestige/Selectiveness Ratio (PSR).

Firms that have high PSRs include places like Weil, Skadden, Kirkland and Latham. You need to prioritize these firms if you want interviews, even though they will interview a relatively large number of students. Lots of people feel that they would have no shot at a DPW but could get in at Skadden, so they bid Skadden really high. Kirkland is similar; I think you had to bid them #1 or #2 last year to get an interview.

I would say Paul Weiss and Debevoise are also very popular, but are big and don't have the same PSR issue; they are arguably more selective and arguably less prestigious than Weil, Skadden, etc., so you can probably bid them in the ~25 range and get an interview.

I would say most of the 15-25 range should go to places that are a little lower ranked/less selective but still good places to be that will be popular, like Hughes Hubbard, Kramer Levin, the Magic Circle firms, etc., etc.

Once you're in the 30s I would start putting my secondary market bids and try to clean up all of those.

Some of the ones that are more selective AND big you could probably get in the high-30s to 40s. I think I got DPW and STB interviews despite ranking them in the 40s, though I don't remember my bid list that well so don't quote me on that.

I dunno--Debevoise is a weird animal at NYU; it was on the top of a lot of people's lists last year, and I'd treat it more like Skadden, Kirkland, or Weil. Basically the firms with 60-70 interview slots are the most dangerous in terms of getting cute. Keep those guys in the top 10.

This.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:To answer the previous poster's question, 3.56 is probably around top 20%.

I'm in a similar situation as OP. Assuming we have a decent shot at an offer, how aggressively should we bid on V10-V15 firms? Should we be ranking firms like Debevoise, Paul Weiss, and Simspon in the top 15ish to ensure we get interviews? Or try to secure 20-25 less selective firms before we think about bidding on the more elite firms?

And, on a side note, do we even have a prayer at the more selective DC firms?

Rising NYU 3L here.

In general, the more selective the firm, the lower you can bid them. You could probably get an interview at Wachtell by throwing it in at 45 or something. Your top 10-15 bids should be the firms that are both well-regarded places and within striking distance for a large number of NYU students: Sidley, Jones Day, Milbank, Shearman, Ropes (very popular, should probably be in your top 5 or 10), etc.

However, there are three, at least, factors you want to balance this general advice against: number of interview slots, subjective popularity, and what I'll call the Prestige/Selectiveness Ratio (PSR).

Firms that have high PSRs include places like Weil, Skadden, Kirkland and Latham. You need to prioritize these firms if you want interviews, even though they will interview a relatively large number of students. Lots of people feel that they would have no shot at a DPW but could get in at Skadden, so they bid Skadden really high. Kirkland is similar; I think you had to bid them #1 or #2 last year to get an interview.

I would say Paul Weiss and Debevoise are also very popular, but are big and don't have the same PSR issue; they are arguably more selective and arguably less prestigious than Weil, Skadden, etc., so you can probably bid them in the ~25 range and get an interview.

I would say most of the 15-25 range should go to places that are a little lower ranked/less selective but still good places to be that will be popular, like Hughes Hubbard, Kramer Levin, the Magic Circle firms, etc., etc.

Once you're in the 30s I would start putting my secondary market bids and try to clean up all of those.

Some of the ones that are more selective AND big you could probably get in the high-30s to 40s. I think I got DPW and STB interviews despite ranking them in the 40s, though I don't remember my bid list that well so don't quote me on that.

I dunno--Debevoise is a weird animal at NYU; it was on the top of a lot of people's lists last year, and I'd treat it more like Skadden, Kirkland, or Weil. Basically the firms with 60-70 interview slots are the most dangerous in terms of getting cute. Keep those guys in the top 10.

Yeah, I'm the anon you quoted and I agree with you on further reflection. Please correct anything else that seems wrong, too, it's been a while since I've thought about this stuff.