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Hi,

I go to a Tier 2 school, which has a strong reputation in NY. I placed relatively high during the first semester and was able to land a summer associate position at an amazing firm for my 1L summer. However, I just received my 2nd semester grades, and I dropped significantly. I went from 16% to 38%. I am so terrified that it will affect them asking me to come back next year for the following summer. Do firms care this much about grades? If I do a good job during the summer, is there a chance I will be given an offer? I feel like it may have ruined my chances.

Also, they asked for my grades before my departure date. I think my school may be sending them earlier. Should I email and speak with the recruiting people to explain the grades now or wait until the end of the summer at the exit interview?!

Some firms are more sensitive to grades and some are not. Since you can't change them, just make sure you do everything as well as you could for the rest of the summer. If they all like you and your work and would vote for you by the end of the program, the grade drop will have less impact on them.

babydoll7304 wrote: Also, they asked for my grades before my departure date. I think my school may be sending them earlier. Should I email and speak with the recruiting people to explain the grades now or wait until the end of the summer at the exit interview?!

Don't send recruiting an email or speak to them trying to explain your grades now or at the end of the summer. Just do a good job. Grades are to some extent a rough proxy for how well they think you'll perform. If they are impressed with your work, they'll probably ask you to come back. They probably took you because they liked you to begin with. Most people who are top 16% at a T2 are not going to find a 1L SA.

Wholigan wrote:

babydoll7304 wrote: Also, they asked for my grades before my departure date. I think my school may be sending them earlier. Should I email and speak with the recruiting people to explain the grades now or wait until the end of the summer at the exit interview?!

Don't send recruiting an email or speak to them trying to explain your grades now or at the end of the summer. Just do a good job. Grades are to some extent a rough proxy for how well they think you'll perform. If they are impressed with your work, they'll probably ask you to come back. They probably took you because they liked you to begin with. Most people who are top 16% at a T2 are not going to find a 1L SA.

You don't think I should say anything?! I do not want them to think that this is a reflection of normal circumstances - I had some issues that impacted the grades. I do not want to offer them as an excuse, as I take responsibility for my grades, but wanted to give them context.

babydoll7304 wrote:

Wholigan wrote:

babydoll7304 wrote: Also, they asked for my grades before my departure date. I think my school may be sending them earlier. Should I email and speak with the recruiting people to explain the grades now or wait until the end of the summer at the exit interview?!

Don't send recruiting an email or speak to them trying to explain your grades now or at the end of the summer. Just do a good job. Grades are to some extent a rough proxy for how well they think you'll perform. If they are impressed with your work, they'll probably ask you to come back. They probably took you because they liked you to begin with. Most people who are top 16% at a T2 are not going to find a 1L SA.

You don't think I should say anything?! I do not want them to think that this is a reflection of normal circumstances - I had some issues that impacted the grades. I do not want to offer them as an excuse, as I take responsibility for my grades, but wanted to give them context.

There is no context, and they don't care about your "issues." Your grades are your grades, so if they aren't great, don't draw any more attention to them than you absolutely must. Focus on your work, and proving that you are a competent, hard-working, enjoyable sort. If everyone likes you and thinks you do good work, that's what they'll say about you when deciding whether to give you an offer to come back.

babydoll7304 wrote:Hi,

I go to a Tier 2 school, which has a strong reputation in NY. I placed relatively high during the first semester and was able to land a summer associate position at an amazing firm for my 1L summer. However, I just received my 2nd semester grades, and I dropped significantly. I went from 16% to 38%. I am so terrified that it will affect them asking me to come back next year for the following summer. Do firms care this much about grades? If I do a good job during the summer, is there a chance I will be given an offer? I feel like it may have ruined my chances.

Also, they asked for my grades before my departure date. I think my school may be sending them earlier. Should I email and speak with the recruiting people to explain the grades now or wait until the end of the summer at the exit interview?!

Was that 1L summer position paid?

Also, what is the reason behind the grade drop?

Renzo wrote:

babydoll7304 wrote:

Wholigan wrote:

babydoll7304 wrote: Also, they asked for my grades before my departure date. I think my school may be sending them earlier. Should I email and speak with the recruiting people to explain the grades now or wait until the end of the summer at the exit interview?!

Don't send recruiting an email or speak to them trying to explain your grades now or at the end of the summer. Just do a good job. Grades are to some extent a rough proxy for how well they think you'll perform. If they are impressed with your work, they'll probably ask you to come back. They probably took you because they liked you to begin with. Most people who are top 16% at a T2 are not going to find a 1L SA.

You don't think I should say anything?! I do not want them to think that this is a reflection of normal circumstances - I had some issues that impacted the grades. I do not want to offer them as an excuse, as I take responsibility for my grades, but wanted to give them context.

There is no context, and they don't care about your "issues." Your grades are your grades, so if they aren't great, don't draw any more attention to them than you absolutely must. Focus on your work, and proving that you are a competent, hard-working, enjoyable sort. If everyone likes you and thinks you do good work, that's what they'll say about you when deciding whether to give you an offer to come back.

THIS!!! THIS!!! THIS!!!
Exception: You got a D--then you need to be ready to explain WTF happened. If all this panic is because you got a C+ or a B- this is a non-issue and going from 16% to 38% is probably about two-hundreds of a GPA difference and irrelevant. Enjoy your 2L SA gig. Rest assured they will continue to ask for your transcripts even after you are offered.

manofjustice wrote:

babydoll7304 wrote:Hi,

I go to a Tier 2 school, which has a strong reputation in NY. I placed relatively high during the first semester and was able to land a summer associate position at an amazing firm for my 1L summer. However, I just received my 2nd semester grades, and I dropped significantly. I went from 16% to 38%. I am so terrified that it will affect them asking me to come back next year for the following summer. Do firms care this much about grades? If I do a good job during the summer, is there a chance I will be given an offer? I feel like it may have ruined my chances.

Also, they asked for my grades before my departure date. I think my school may be sending them earlier. Should I email and speak with the recruiting people to explain the grades now or wait until the end of the summer at the exit interview?!

Was that 1L summer position paid?

Also, what is the reason behind the grade drop?

Yes, the position is paid. And the reason behind the grade drop is my father was diagnosed with a serious illness, and I allowed it disrupt my studies. It's my fault - and I understand that grades are grades - I cannot change them, but I have learned the importance of balancing work and personal issues to avoid this in the future.

babydoll7304 wrote:

manofjustice wrote:

babydoll7304 wrote:Hi,

I go to a Tier 2 school, which has a strong reputation in NY. I placed relatively high during the first semester and was able to land a summer associate position at an amazing firm for my 1L summer. However, I just received my 2nd semester grades, and I dropped significantly. I went from 16% to 38%. I am so terrified that it will affect them asking me to come back next year for the following summer. Do firms care this much about grades? If I do a good job during the summer, is there a chance I will be given an offer? I feel like it may have ruined my chances.

Also, they asked for my grades before my departure date. I think my school may be sending them earlier. Should I email and speak with the recruiting people to explain the grades now or wait until the end of the summer at the exit interview?!

Was that 1L summer position paid?

Also, what is the reason behind the grade drop?

Yes, the position is paid. And the reason behind the grade drop is my father was diagnosed with a serious illness, and I allowed it disrupt my studies. It's my fault - and I understand that grades are grades - I cannot change them, but I have learned the importance of balancing work and personal issues to avoid this in the future.

your father was seriously ill; obviously it's going to affect your grades. even law firm recruiters will understand that. also, people at law school in general should just ctfo and realize that it's still okay to have a personal life as a lawyer.

babydoll7304 wrote:...the reason behind the grade drop is my father was diagnosed with a serious illness, and I allowed it disrupt my studies. It's my fault - and I understand that grades are grades - I cannot change them, but I have learned the importance of balancing work and personal issues to avoid this in the future.

This exact sentence is perfect, and is exactly what you should say if anyone ever asks you about the grades. But, again, don't ever bring up your own weak points when you are trying to convince someone to hire you. You focus on the strong points, and be ready to respond if they bring up an area of concern.

Firm hiring is not like law school admission. For school admission, there is no context since they have to report the number regardless of the underlying reasons for a particular GPA. But a firm doesn't report any numbers. They may be concerned with a grade drop, but if you do great work, and have an entirely reasonable explanation if prompted for one, then it will become a non-issue. Those who say that GPA is a mere number without context are only thinking in terms of schools and how they handle such numbers. Firms can and do consider context and the bigger picture, at least among those they actually brought in as summers.

Anonymous User wrote:Firm hiring is not like law school admission. For school admission, there is no context since they have to report the number regardless of the underlying reasons for a particular GPA. But a firm doesn't report any numbers. They may be concerned with a grade drop, but if you do great work, and have an entirely reasonable explanation if prompted for one, then it will become a non-issue. Those who say that GPA is a mere number without context are only thinking in terms of schools and how they handle such numbers. Firms can and do consider context and the bigger picture, at least among those they actually brought in as summers.

You don't understand. The issue is not whether there's an explanation for a bad grade, or how persuasive that explanation might be. The issue is that when you are persuading someone to do something, you don't start the conversation by pointing out the reasons for them to do the opposite of what you want. That's self-sabotage, and it's stupid.