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zip zop

Killself is legit response if aiming for biglaw or in sticker debt.

Anonymous User wrote:I got all B+s and one A- this year, and IU-B curves to a B+. Should I killself? If not, then what?

Apply for jobs? I don't know what you're looking for here.

I'm looking for advice, actually. Should I drop out? I'm borrowing 30K/year.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm looking for advice, actually. Should I drop out? I'm borrowing 30K/year.

Well we know nothing about you...

What do you need to know? I want to work in private practice, in Philly/NJ/NYC, I'm from the east coast, midlaw would be fine, I'm borrowing $30K/year total, and I have no idea why I'm consistently getting B+'s (maybe I'm not cut out for law). Does it make sense to continue? Will I be able to get that kind of job now, or am I basically screwed?

Anonymous User wrote:What do you need to know? I want to work in private practice, in Philly/NJ/NYC, I'm from the east coast, midlaw would be fine, I'm borrowing $30K/year total, and I have no idea why I'm consistently getting B+'s (maybe I'm not cut out for law). Does it make sense to continue? Will I be able to get that kind of job now, or am I basically screwed?

Midlaw would be fine? Op has no idea how thoroughly fucked he is.

Veyron wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:What do you need to know? I want to work in private practice, in Philly/NJ/NYC, I'm from the east coast, midlaw would be fine, I'm borrowing $30K/year total, and I have no idea why I'm consistently getting B+'s (maybe I'm not cut out for law). Does it make sense to continue? Will I be able to get that kind of job now, or am I basically screwed?

Midlaw would be fine? Op has no idea how thoroughly fucked he is.

I'm sure your extensive legal career can speak to that. BIGLAWS OR BUST!!!1!!

To anyone else: would it be possible or make sense to transfer to a lesser ranked school in that region? Would that help my chances?

If you think you can hustle (network, chase down jobs like it is your job), don't drop out. People tend to be overly fatalistic about legal employment potential. You're right about having zero chance at big law. Sorry. But mid law is not out of the question. Your only problem is there are way better law schools on the east coast. So you need to start finding alumni from your school out there and connecting with them - and making sure they like you enough to keep you in mind.

Mid law in Indy - you shouldn't have too tough of a time. Again, if you hustle.

Most caution against more debt / years in school that is necessary - but can you joint program at IU-B with a JD/MBA instead of transferring down? It will make you more marketable in at least NYC, and it will only take one extra year if you look into it now. Isn't IU's business school more highly ranked than its law school? Anyways, this is much more preferable than transferring down, in my personal opinion.

If you really think your only option is a downward transfer, then drop out. More money in the hole to look like some kid who couldn't hack it in a T30 (where is IU nowadays, anyway?) so he dropped to a, what, T50? That's hard to explain unless there's some dire family issue, etc. behind that kind of move.

Anonymous User wrote:

Veyron wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:What do you need to know? I want to work in private practice, in Philly/NJ/NYC, I'm from the east coast, midlaw would be fine, I'm borrowing $30K/year total, and I have no idea why I'm consistently getting B+'s (maybe I'm not cut out for law). Does it make sense to continue? Will I be able to get that kind of job now, or am I basically screwed?

Midlaw would be fine? Op has no idea how thoroughly fucked he is.

I'm sure your extensive legal career can speak to that. BIGLAWS OR BUST!!!1!!

To anyone else: would it be possible or make sense to transfer to a lesser ranked school in that region? Would that help my chances?

My point, which was quite the opposite, is that even midlaw is probably out of your league.

Could some kind soul inform me regarding what the standard TLS definition of "midlaw" includes?

Paul Campos wrote:Could some kind soul inform me regarding what the standard TLS definition of "midlaw" includes?

Pays 80k+?

OP - I just finished my 2L year at IU-B. I was top 30% last fall, with post B.S. work experience, and struck out at OCI and mass mailings. I agree with the advice to consider a joint degree. Not only is the Business school pretty highly ranked, but so is SPEA, if you are interested in public affairs. I am in a joint JD program now and have improved my grades a lot.

The reason that grade improvement matters is that, as a joint JD student, you have the chance to go through the summer associate lottery (aka OCI) one more time. You also have something else to talk about in an interview, especially if you have an unusual joint degree. In the 2L year you can game the system somewhat to vastly improve your GPA and resume through class selection. By this I mean taking seminars, clinics, small classes in fields that interest you, etc. The seminars, clinics, and classes below a certain size (20 students?) are not graded on a curve. This was my plan going in, and it worked. Last semester, I had a 3.92 GPA which, combined with a 3.7 fall semester has put me at or near the top 10%. I can also talk about papers I wrote in a seminar, work I did at the clinic I was in, and so on.

I'm not sure if it will work or not, but I considered this a better approach than dropping out. If the $30k/year includes COL, I would stick it out or investigate a joint degree. If you are paying $30k / year in tuition, then maybe drop out. DON'T transfer to a lower ranked school.

Finally, if you are in Bloomington and want to talk to me about this, post a reply and I will PM you.

That's very helpful, thank you for your advice. The $30K does include COL. What kinds of jobs do Maurer/SPEA people go after?

By the way, Veyron, I'd say you're a tool, but you may be right. Either way, bite me.

Anonymous User wrote:That's very helpful, thank you for your advice. The $30K does include COL. What kinds of jobs do Maurer/SPEA people go after?

By the way, Veyron, I'd say you're a tool, but you may be right. Either way, bite me.

Veyron is right. My first run through at OCI was around median at a T14 and I whiffed. My friend was just outside top third at the same T14 and got one offer for regional biglaw through a family connection. This was at a school that placed 30%+ in biglaw and 30% in midlaw/government/state clerkships. IUB places under 6.5% in biglaw. See --LinkRemoved-- for a deeper breakdown. Defining midlaw as 25-100, that's another 4% of the class. Assuming that clerkships, government (including non-legal contract officer jobs), PI, and firms of 25+ are the equivalent desirable jobs, that's still only 36% of the class that could possibly compete for the midlaw jobs. And when you're at median, you're not just competing against the top third of the class for those 36% of jobs, you also have any IP/URMs outside of the top third and anyone with family ties or unique W/E outside the top third who are also gunning for those spots. I'm usually against getting more degrees to double down, but if the B-school places, it might be an actual chance to salvage things.

Paul Campos wrote:Could some kind soul inform me regarding what the standard TLS definition of "midlaw" includes?

There isn't one. Probably firms of below 100 or so that still do big firm style shit and have a wide practice area (as opposed to boutiques), but don't work on as large matter (generally) as large firms.

rad lulz wrote:

Paul Campos wrote:Could some kind soul inform me regarding what the standard TLS definition of "midlaw" includes?

There isn't one. Probably firms of below 100 or so that still do big firm style shit and have a wide practice area (as opposed to boutiques), but don't work on as large matter (generally) as large firms.

Hmm. I think firms 100-160 are also midlaw.

IAFG wrote:

rad lulz wrote:

Paul Campos wrote:Could some kind soul inform me regarding what the standard TLS definition of "midlaw" includes?

There isn't one. Probably firms of below 100 or so that still do big firm style shit and have a wide practice area (as opposed to boutiques), but don't work on as large matter (generally) as large firms.

Hmm. I think firms 100-160 are also midlaw.

Firms of 100-160 would be the biggest and work on the most complicated matters in secondary markets and pay whatever market is there. Though to you, that could still be "midlaw" by virtue of market.

rad lulz wrote:

IAFG wrote:

rad lulz wrote:

Paul Campos wrote:Could some kind soul inform me regarding what the standard TLS definition of "midlaw" includes?

There isn't one. Probably firms of below 100 or so that still do big firm style shit and have a wide practice area (as opposed to boutiques), but don't work on as large matter (generally) as large firms.

Hmm. I think firms 100-160 are also midlaw.

Firms of 100-160 would be the biggest and work on the most complicated matters in secondary markets and pay whatever market is there. Though to you, that could still be "midlaw" by virtue of market.

Yeah differentiating between regional biglaw/midlaw is tricky. What is solidly midlaw in one city is biglaw in another. But I guess I don't think some cities actually have any biglaw. And if it doesn't pay $160k it's not biglaw in my mind.

By that definition, ATL wouldn't have any biglaw, as top firms are at $145.

OP here. So, assuming I have few and weak connections, should I not even bother doing OCI?

IAFG wrote:And if it doesn't pay $160k it's not biglaw in my mind.

lol

rad lulz wrote:By that definition, ATL wouldn't have any biglaw, as top firms are at $145.

Jones Day and Paul Hastings at 150! (market is 135 though)

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. So, assuming I have few and weak connections, should I not even bother doing OCI?

Yes go through OCI. What do you have to lose?

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. So, assuming I have few and weak connections, should I not even bother doing OCI?

What's your back-up plan? Have you reached out to any alums in the mid-Atlantic where you want to be? You seem pouty.