Chicago Biglaw from NYC Schools Forum

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri May 11, 2012 11:02 am

because it is common for UChicago students at above median to take the V15 in NY

Is this true now? In my class, it seemed like higher you were ranked, the less of a chance you were going to go NYC. Most of the honors or higher people seemed to either stay in Chicago or go DC/SF.

TaipeiMort · Post by **TaipeiMort** » Fri May 11, 2012 11:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
because it is common for UChicago students at above median to take the V15 in NY
Is this true now? In my class, it seemed like higher you were ranked, the less of a chance you were going to go NYC. Most of the honors or higher people seemed to either stay in Chicago or go DC/SF.

I can't speak for my whole class, but the people I know who were good-not-great (177-178.5 or so) found that they got great offers from NYC V15 firms which were justified to take over Mayer or Jenner. The people at the top of the class I know (once again anecdotal) stayed in Chicago or went to DC or SF lit or something else appealing.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri May 11, 2012 11:53 am

but the people I know who were good-not-great (177-178.5 or so) found that they got great offers from NYC V15 firms which were justified to take over Mayer or Jenner.

Ah. You're talking just below median up to right at the top quarter. I can believe that these people would strike out at Sidley/Kirkland (and DC/SF) and prefer NYC V15 to the next tier of Chicago firms. My year, it seemed the cutoff for Sidley/Kirkland/SF/DC (and Mayer too) was just a hair under 178 -- maybe 177.8 or so -- but that was pre-ITE, so I can believe that it is a bit higher now.

Snape · Post by **Snape** » Tue May 15, 2012 7:18 am

This is interesting...I thought the schools required the firms to look at US News and student grades and then they created a ratio to make offers? This allowed the schools and students who have depended on their parents and teachers for their entire lives to make sure nobody felt bad at not getting a job because they chose a school in the wrong location or didn't know how to compete in the real world. So unfortunate! This thread seems to imply that students will actually have to seek employment on their own and possibly think about more than a basic rankings system when deciding what school to attend--seems like a lot of work!

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue May 15, 2012 1:05 pm

Snape wrote:This is interesting...I thought the schools required the firms to look at US News and student grades and then they created a ratio to make offers? This allowed the schools and students who have depended on their parents and teachers for their entire lives to make sure nobody felt bad at not getting a job because they chose a school in the wrong location or didn't know how to compete in the real world. So unfortunate! This thread seems to imply that students will actually have to seek employment on their own and possibly think about more than a basic rankings system when deciding what school to attend--seems like a lot of work!

Huh?

OP, for a 0L, I think the choice of C/N > NU is an easy one because there is less downside risk. Even if said 0L wants a Chicago job, there's a bigger chance he'll end up with NO job if he goes to NU. There is very little chance he will be jobless if he goes to C/N.
But for someone who is a 1L considering transferring, the calculus is different. You already have the grades you'll be using for OCI. So the question really is: are t30 transfers who want Chicago biglaw better at NU or C/N? I think the answer is pretty clearly NU. Of course, if you can get Chicago, you should go there. But if you go to C/N, you run the risk of firms thinking you're not committed to Chicago.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue May 15, 2012 1:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Snape wrote:Huh?

OP, for a 0L, I think the choice of C/N > NU is an easy one because there is less downside risk. Even if said 0L wants a Chicago job, there's a bigger chance he'll end up with NO job if he goes to NU. There is very little chance he will be jobless if he goes to C/N.
But for someone who is a 1L considering transferring, the calculus is different. You already have the grades you'll be using for OCI. So the question really is: are t30 transfers who want Chicago biglaw better at NU or C/N? I think the answer is pretty clearly NU. Of course, if you can get Chicago, you should go there. But if you go to C/N, you run the risk of firms thinking you're not committed to Chicago.

Huh? This is completely wrong? Have you even bothered to look at data? Let me guess, you think US News Rankings equates to likelihood of chances at Big Law Chicago (Which is what OP wants)....NU has outranked both Columbia and NY for the last 5 years without a doubt....be careful before you make very bad assertions to an OP looking for advice...you gave some terrible advice!!! Just terrible! If OP wants Chicago then there is absolutely no doubt in this world that NU >>>>>Columbia/NYU....thats not to say his shot at Chi is lost by going to a school 750 miles away in a different legal market with marginal differences in overall rankings....but if he wants Chicago Big Law there is absolutely no doubt NU is the best choice and you're advice is horrific!!!!

Snape · Post by **Snape** » Tue May 15, 2012 1:28 pm

Agree! Just look at NLJ rankings....if you want BigLaw there is nothing that proves C/N is at all better. In fact, most data would have NU slightly better than Columbia and much better than NYU based on the past few years or so.

kwais · Post by **kwais** » Tue May 15, 2012 1:37 pm

Just remember that some of NUs great placement is a function of their student body's work experience, which at any top school will help your biglaw chances. If you have little to no WE, then I think CLS/NYU clearly are safer bets than NU for any market. Not sure what OP's story but I think this is relevant for the topic in general

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue May 15, 2012 1:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Snape wrote:Huh?

OP, for a 0L, I think the choice of C/N > NU is an easy one because there is less downside risk. Even if said 0L wants a Chicago job, there's a bigger chance he'll end up with NO job if he goes to NU. There is very little chance he will be jobless if he goes to C/N.
But for someone who is a 1L considering transferring, the calculus is different. You already have the grades you'll be using for OCI. So the question really is: are t30 transfers who want Chicago biglaw better at NU or C/N? I think the answer is pretty clearly NU. Of course, if you can get Chicago, you should go there. But if you go to C/N, you run the risk of firms thinking you're not committed to Chicago.
Huh? This is completely wrong? Have you even bothered to look at data? Let me guess, you think US News Rankings equates to likelihood of chances at Big Law Chicago (Which is what OP wants)....NU has outranked both Columbia and NY for the last 5 years without a doubt....be careful before you make very bad assertions to an OP looking for advice...you gave some terrible advice!!! Just terrible! If OP wants Chicago then there is absolutely no doubt in this world that NU >>>>>Columbia/NYU....thats not to say his shot at Chi is lost by going to a school 750 miles away in a different legal market with marginal differences in overall rankings....but if he wants Chicago Big Law there is absolutely no doubt NU is the best choice and you're advice is horrific!!!!

You obviously did not read what I wrote. Columbia and NYU have better overall placement than NU for the average 0L. The reason NU makes a better showing in NLJ is because more NU students have significant work experience. It's not the placement power of the school; it's the characteristics of the average student. You're conflating the causes.

Snape · Post by **Snape** » Tue May 15, 2012 1:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Snape wrote:Huh?

OP, for a 0L, I think the choice of C/N > NU is an easy one because there is less downside risk. Even if said 0L wants a Chicago job, there's a bigger chance he'll end up with NO job if he goes to NU. There is very little chance he will be jobless if he goes to C/N.
But for someone who is a 1L considering transferring, the calculus is different. You already have the grades you'll be using for OCI. So the question really is: are t30 transfers who want Chicago biglaw better at NU or C/N? I think the answer is pretty clearly NU. Of course, if you can get Chicago, you should go there. But if you go to C/N, you run the risk of firms thinking you're not committed to Chicago.
Huh? This is completely wrong? Have you even bothered to look at data? Let me guess, you think US News Rankings equates to likelihood of chances at Big Law Chicago (Which is what OP wants)....NU has outranked both Columbia and NY for the last 5 years without a doubt....be careful before you make very bad assertions to an OP looking for advice...you gave some terrible advice!!! Just terrible! If OP wants Chicago then there is absolutely no doubt in this world that NU >>>>>Columbia/NYU....thats not to say his shot at Chi is lost by going to a school 750 miles away in a different legal market with marginal differences in overall rankings....but if he wants Chicago Big Law there is absolutely no doubt NU is the best choice and you're advice is horrific!!!!
You obviously did not read what I wrote. Columbia and NYU have better overall placement than NU for the average 0L. The reason NU makes a better showing in NLJ is because more NU students have significant work experience. It's not the placement power of the school; it's the characteristics of the average student. You're conflating the causes.

No I read it....you are wrong...look up any Big Law employment data for the last 5 years....just look it up! Chicago or nationally, there is a clear ordering of NU > Columbia >>>NYU for big law placement

kwais · Post by **kwais** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:00 pm

Snape wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: You obviously did not read what I wrote. Columbia and NYU have better overall placement than NU for the average 0L. The reason NU makes a better showing in NLJ is because more NU students have significant work experience. It's not the placement power of the school; it's the characteristics of the average student. You're conflating the causes.
No I read it....you are wrong...look up any Big Law employment data for the last 5 years....just look it up! Chicago or nationally, there is a clear ordering of NU > Columbia >>>NYU for big law placement

you are in no way, shape or form actually addressing the question here. You are sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling.

Snape · Post by **Snape** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:06 pm

So I guess based on your logic, actual employment data and statistics are wrong, while US News Rankings alone is right? What other basis would one have for ever saying any sort of career prospects are better from NYU then NU...even conceding that overall Columbia may be slightly better, where, besides US News which really means nothing except to schools and incoming students, would one find any data, evidence, or anything of any practical importance that shows NYU has more reach for anything than NU? Im just asking to see where you are getting this information or evidence so that I am better informed? otherwise I'll just tend to think you are relying on US News and your own thoughts.

NC1 · Post by **NC1** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:11 pm

This thread is relevant to my interests...so tag.

kwais · Post by **kwais** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:13 pm

Snape wrote:So I guess based on your logic, actual employment data and statistics are wrong, while US News Rankings alone is right? What other basis would one have for ever saying any sort of career prospects are better from NYU then NU...even conceding that overall Columbia may be slightly better, where, besides US News which really means nothing except to schools and incoming students, would one find any data, evidence, or anything of any practical importance that shows NYU has more reach for anything than NU? Im just asking to see where you are getting this information or evidence so that I am better informed? otherwise I'll just tend to think you are relying on US News and your own thoughts.

Who the fuck is talking about USNews? And all of a sudden you just conceded that CLS has stronger placement when one minute ago it was NU >>>>>>CLS? What's up there buddy?
You want evidence, look at the incoming classes and attorney make-up of many of the nations most desirable employment. There are more CLS and NYU students. My point is simply this. Two students with the same WE, the one from CLS/NYU has more and better options. This is hardly disputable and it has nothing to do with USNews.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:14 pm

58.6% of NYU students are employed in lawfirms of 501+ attorneys or federal judicial clerkships
48.5% of NU students are employed in lawfirms of 501+ attorneys or federal judicial clerkships

I was going to write out a reasoned response to you, but I stopped when I could not make it through your posts in 2 slow reads. Learn to use a period. And three in a row does not count. The bolded "sentence" made me want to punch you through the internet.

Snape wrote:So I guess based on your logic, actual employment data and statistics are wrong, while US News Rankings alone is right? What other basis would one have for ever saying any sort of career prospects are better from NYU then NU...even conceding that overall Columbia may be slightly better, where, besides US News which really means nothing except to schools and incoming students, would one find any data, evidence, or anything of any practical importance that shows NYU has more reach for anything than NU? Im just asking to see where you are getting this information or evidence so that I am better informed? otherwise I'll just tend to think you are relying on US News and your own thoughts.

kaiser · Post by **kaiser** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:17 pm

And don't forget that not all NLJ250 firms are made the same. You will find a lot more CLS/NYU representation at the very top firms than you will find NU representation.

bk1 · Post by **bk1** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:23 pm

Just gonna point out that Snape is biased (and seems to be smoking crack). Granted so am I and kwais but kwais is making sense and I'm biased in favor of thinking I make sense.

If I definitely wanted Chicago I would take NU over CLS/NYU. I'm skeptical that the difference between say NYU and NU is that large outside of NYC (maybe DC too), but I could be wrong on that count. I agree that NU's placement is inflated by the work experience of its students but its hard to quantify that inflation. Personally I have not found that the year I spent as a paper-pusher (which is worse than most of my classmates) has put me at a disadvantage so far, but I haven't done OCI.

That being said, I think the issue is different for someone considering transferring. I think OP has to seriously question how badly he wants Chicago and is he willing to lower his biglaw chances by aiming for it. At least from what I've read by traehekat, NU transfers don't seem to do as well so that is already a mark against it versus CLS/NYU. On top of that, Chicago is going to be harder than NYC whether you're at NU or CLS/NYU. But of course NYC isn't for everyone (I personally would rather not work there) and location preferences aren't fully rational. Personally considering sticker price debt I'd hedge my bets and take CLS/NYU over NU and aim for NYC, but I'm willing to sacrifice my distaste for NYC in favor of maximizing my chances at a job and I know not everyone is willing to do that.

Snape · Post by **Snape** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:25 pm

Please cite your sources. Normally you learn that in about the 4th grade. Also, so now 501+ firms is the data threshold? Besides you, what reputable source uses that as the qualifying data point? All I'm seeing is personal opinions with no citation. Please learn to better cite your sources and back up your statements with some sort of actual evidence.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:29 pm

Snape wrote:Please site your sources. Normally you learn that in about the 4th grade.

The word is "cite."
NU (LinkRemoved)
NYU (LinkRemoved)
Did you really think I made them up?

Snape wrote:Also, so now 501+ firms is the data threshold? Besides you, what reputable source uses that as the qualifying data point? All I'm seeing is personal opinions with no citation. Please learn to better cite your sources and back up your statements with some sort of actual evidence.

Snape wrote:there is a clear ordering of NU > Columbia >>>NYU for big law placement

You said "big law placement," so I used 501+ law firms. But I assure you, the numbers are better for NYU than NU across the board. And way better for CLS than NU.
I'm done wasting time arguing with you. Are you 14?

Snape · Post by **Snape** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:32 pm

Also, the bias I have is against people who rely solely on US News to make the choice of law school and fail to think about what they actually want when making choices. If you want Chicago, you should go to NU (not even considering the better chance of scholarship money). If you aren't sure then its a crap shoot and New York is always a safer bet. But then, should you really go to law school if you have no idea where you want to be or what you want to do? That would seem very ill-advised. It seems one should have more than a 50/50 idea if they want to live and begin a career in NY or Chi before they start law school.

Also, what is wrong with a Columbia/NYU troll admitting that if someone wants to be in Chicago they should choose NU?

kwais · Post by **kwais** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:33 pm

Snape wrote:Please cite your sources. Normally you learn that in about the 4th grade. Also, so now 501+ firms is the data threshold? Besides you, what reputable source uses that as the qualifying data point? All I'm seeing is personal opinions with no citation. Please learn to better cite your sources and back up your statements with some sort of actual evidence.

You sound like one of those "you can't prove God doesn't exist so Ha!" people. Clearly you have no interest in reality. The data is out there. Enjoy your search

Snape · Post by **Snape** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:36 pm

kwais wrote:
Snape wrote:Please cite your sources. Normally you learn that in about the 4th grade. Also, so now 501+ firms is the data threshold? Besides you, what reputable source uses that as the qualifying data point? All I'm seeing is personal opinions with no citation. Please learn to better cite your sources and back up your statements with some sort of actual evidence.
You sound like one of those "you can't prove God doesn't exist so Ha!" people. Clearly you have no interest in reality. The data is out there. Enjoy your search

Here's the data. Your turn. http://www.princetonreview.com/schoolli ... e=r&id=684

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:43 pm

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

bk1 · Post by **bk1** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

Oh for fuck's sake:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 8#p5364240

kwais · Post by **kwais** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:58 pm

bk187 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1
Oh for fuck's sake:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 8#p5364240

I guess that makes it Snape's turn

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