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Posted: **Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:47 pm**

I hear folks like me have to start the job search early. I realize OCI is probably out of the question for me. How does mass mailing work? Just start searching Martindale and apply to every firm I find? Should I avoid larger firms entirely? Does this mean midsize firms as well? Should I wait for gov/public interest interviews in the fall? Any hope from attending networking events?

Thanks in advance.

Posted: **Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:57 pm**

wiseguy33 wrote:I hear folks like me have to start the job search early. I realize OCI is probably out of the question for me. How does mass mailing work? Just start searching Martindale and apply to every firm I find? Should I avoid larger firms entirely? Does this mean midsize firms as well? Should I wait for gov/public interest interviews in the fall? Any hope from attending networking events?

Thanks in advance.

1. OCI is not out of the question. The T14 have leveraged their clout so that law firms don't get to pick who they interview; the students bid on who they interview with. Pick firms in your home market and with median GPAs at the lower end of the curve and you'll have a shot.

2. Martindale also sucks because it's pay for inclusion and ad-based. Start with the NALP Directory, then work your way to the Leadership Directories, then your school's Simplicity Database (generally the tab next to Jobs, but before the tab for OCI), then the local equivalent of the WALRAA/ALANYC, then Law.com/Martindale.

3. No, do not avoid large or midsize firms. By T14, I assume you are MVPBDCNG and P placed 50%+ during the recession into large firms. If you hustle, work on your mock interviews, and create a decent story, you totally have a shot at big or mid firms.

4. Yes, do gov/PI, but don't count on it. They generally have later recruiting deadlines anyway (except for DOJ/SEC), so your early fall should be focused on firms. But do work outside the Arizona Guide/Simplicity. All of my government internships were through the Leadership Directories by cold-mailing random lawyers in the government with extra budget money.

5. Yes, network your ass off. You go to a T14 that has populated most of the firms in every market. Use that alumni base to learn info about the firms you are interviewing with at OCI, learn about peculiarities in certain fields/firms/programs that you can mention in your cover letter, and signal to recruiters that you cared enough about their firm to talk to person X. I know some people have worked the larger school-oriented networking events, but I never had luck at those. Emailing random partners and going to local ABA/bar events was much better for me because I wasn't standing right next to the 6'1'' gunner with the ivy undergrad and perfect hair.

Posted: **Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:04 pm**

You realize you only have half your grades, right?

Posted: **Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:19 pm**

bk187 wrote:You realize you only have half your grades, right?

Posted: **Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:46 pm**

Posted: **Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:50 pm**

How to mass mail:

1) Don't ding yourself. Don't decide that you can't get V10/V20/V100/a secondary market without ties/whatever. That's for them to decide. I don't really buy into the whole "conserving your energy" thing because massmailing another firm should only be taking you about 2-5 minutes.

2) Get on NALP and start building a spreadsheet. You need a column for each of the following:
a) Firm Name
b) City (if you're applying to more than one city for the same firm, make sure you have a new entry for each office. If the contact info is the same for every office of the firm, just pick one city).
c) The practice areas they have that you're interested in and any other notes about the firm specifically that you're going to want to mention (or any name dropping you want to do with anyone who works there that you have been chatting with)
d) The contact person or recruiter's name
e) Their email address
f) A line to track your status with that firm
g) Cover letter that's going to go in the body of the email.

This is going to start you up for being a mass mailing machine.

Next, you're going to write a couple basic cover letter templates.

The first will be the most generic: mention your status (rising 2L), school, work experience and background. This one will be similar in every cover letter, except for your ties to different markets. For example, if you're from New York but worked in DC, your NY opening paragraph is going to focus on your past and continuing NY ties. The opening paragraph for DC firms is going to focus on the time you spent in DC. If you don't have any ties, just say something simple about what you like about the city (even if you've never been there before.) So, you'll have an opening paragraph prepped for every market you apply to.

Your second paragraph will be about the firm and why you're interested in it, drawing from column c). This should also be pretty reusable. For example, if you're interested in bankruptcy and corporate law, you'll have one second paragraph that focuses on bankruptcy for firms that don't do a lot of corporate, one for firms that do mostly corporate but not much bankruptcy, and one for firms that are strong in both. In your three model paragraphs, I recommend putting something like, "I am especially interest in [FIRM] due to their strength in bankruptcy and involvement in recent sophisticated and high-profile corporate bankruptcy matters." That should make it pretty easy for your eye to catch the fact you need to personalize the paragraph before hitting send.

Your closing paragraph should be pretty generic and reusable across the board.

Now, start assembling cover letters by copying and pasting your model paragraphs into g). Replace the contact person's name, firm names, and possibly add some detail from your column c) to make it more tailored, if you have that information. There's a balance to strike between learning a little about what makes the firm stand out and saving time, but remember: it's more important to have applied in a timely manner than have sent every firm a brilliant cover letter in January. I got multiple offers out of mass mailing, and my cover letters were sinfully generic.

Once you get a good batch of cover letters together (I generally did a whole market at a time) scan all the cover letters for errors, then start putting them in email bodies, proof one more time, attach your cover letter and a scanned copy of your transcript, and start hitting send.

*****************************
MODEL COVER LETTER

Ms. [RECRUITER],

Please accept my application for a summer associate position in [CITY]. I am primarily interested in getting exposure to [PRACTICE AREAS], and believe [FIRM/FIRM'S CITY-SPECIFIC OFFICE] would be a great opportunity to work in these areas. [Additionally, I grew up in Boston, and am hoping to find an opportunity to begin my career near my extended family.] [Additionally, I spent the past two years prior to law school working in Minneapolis, and would like to return to begin my legal career.] [Additionally, I have greatly enjoyed my first year living in the south, and am hoping to begin my legal career in Atlanta.]

Before coming to law school, I worked as a management consultant at New Horizons Consulting, assisting a variety of large corporations develop marketing strategies. At Duke Law, I have served on the executive board of our Transactional Law Society and Women's Law Society. I've built on my corporate background by taking elective coursework related to transactional practice, including Corporations and Tax.

In law school, I've developed an interest in restructuring. I am enrolled in Bankruptcy this Fall and am seeking an externship in an upcoming semester with U.S Trustees. I also plan to compete on the Transactional Moot Team at Duke next year. If I do get the chance to do bankruptcy and transactional work, I hope my consulting background and transactional moot experience will serve me well.

Thank you for your time,
Jane Doe
(555) 555-5555
jane.doe@dukelaw.edu

Posted: **Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:18 pm**

Anonymous User wrote:How to mass mail:

1) Don't ding yourself. Don't decide that you can't get V10/V20/V100/a secondary market without ties/whatever. That's for them to decide. I don't really buy into the whole "conserving your energy" thing because massmailing another firm should only be taking you about 2-5 minutes.

2) Get on NALP and start building a spreadsheet. You need a column for each of the following:
a) Firm Name
b) City (if you're applying to more than one city for the same firm, make sure you have a new entry for each office. If the contact info is the same for every office of the firm, just pick one city).
c) The practice areas they have that you're interested in and any other notes about the firm specifically that you're going to want to mention (or any name dropping you want to do with anyone who works there that you have been chatting with)
d) The contact person or recruiter's name
e) Their email address
f) A line to track your status with that firm
g) Cover letter that's going to go in the body of the email.

This is going to start you up for being a mass mailing machine.

Next, you're going to write a couple basic cover letter templates.

The first will be the most generic: mention your status (rising 2L), school, work experience and background. This one will be similar in every cover letter, except for your ties to different markets. For example, if you're from New York but worked in DC, your NY opening paragraph is going to focus on your past and continuing NY ties. The opening paragraph for DC firms is going to focus on the time you spent in DC. If you don't have any ties, just say something simple about what you like about the city (even if you've never been there before.) So, you'll have an opening paragraph prepped for every market you apply to.

Your second paragraph will be about the firm and why you're interested in it, drawing from column c). This should also be pretty reusable. For example, if you're interested in bankruptcy and corporate law, you'll have one second paragraph that focuses on bankruptcy for firms that don't do a lot of corporate, one for firms that do mostly corporate but not much bankruptcy, and one for firms that are strong in both. In your three model paragraphs, I recommend putting something like, "I am especially interest in [FIRM] due to their strength in bankruptcy and involvement in recent sophisticated and high-profile corporate bankruptcy matters." That should make it pretty easy for your eye to catch the fact you need to personalize the paragraph before hitting send.

Your closing paragraph should be pretty generic and reusable across the board.

Now, start assembling cover letters by copying and pasting your model paragraphs into g). Replace the contact person's name, firm names, and possibly add some detail from your column c) to make it more tailored, if you have that information. There's a balance to strike between learning a little about what makes the firm stand out and saving time, but remember: it's more important to have applied in a timely manner than have sent every firm a brilliant cover letter in January. I got multiple offers out of mass mailing, and my cover letters were sinfully generic.

Once you get a good batch of cover letters together (I generally did a whole market at a time) scan all the cover letters for errors, then start putting them in email bodies, proof one more time, attach your cover letter and a scanned copy of your transcript, and start hitting send.

*****************************
MODEL COVER LETTER

Ms. [RECRUITER],

Please accept my application for a summer associate position in [CITY]. I am primarily interested in getting exposure to [PRACTICE AREAS], and believe [FIRM/FIRM'S CITY-SPECIFIC OFFICE] would be a great opportunity to work in these areas. [Additionally, I grew up in Boston, and am hoping to find an opportunity to begin my career near my extended family.] [Additionally, I spent the past two years prior to law school working in Minneapolis, and would like to return to begin my legal career.] [Additionally, I have greatly enjoyed my first year living in the south, and am hoping to begin my legal career in Atlanta.]

Before coming to law school, I worked as a management consultant at New Horizons Consulting, assisting a variety of large corporations develop marketing strategies. At Duke Law, I have served on the executive board of our Transactional Law Society and Women's Law Society. I've built on my corporate background by taking elective coursework related to transactional practice, including Corporations and Tax.

In law school, I've developed an interest in restructuring. I am enrolled in Bankruptcy this Fall and am seeking an externship in an upcoming semester with U.S Trustees. I also plan to compete on the Transactional Moot Team at Duke next year. If I do get the chance to do bankruptcy and transactional work, I hope my consulting background and transactional moot experience will serve me well.

Thank you for your time,
Jane Doe
(555) 555-5555
jane.doe@dukelaw.edu

I applaud this method and used it myself quite successfully. Just be aware that everyone is doing this now and it is a baseline, not a reach. One of my friend's parents are in a three-person struggling general practice firm in a 30,000 person town about 100 miles from the nearest metro area. This year they got over 30 resumes from a single T20 in that metro area. The students had simply drawn a 200 mile circle around the metro town and mailed every firm in that radius, regardless of size or practice. It works eventually, but again, it's the minimum you have to do.

Posted: **Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:42 pm**

tagging for when i get the other half of my grades

Posted: **Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:55 pm**

LawIdiot86 wrote:I applaud this method and used it myself quite successfully. Just be aware that everyone is doing this now and it is a baseline, not a reach. One of my friend's parents are in a three-person struggling general practice firm in a 30,000 person town about 100 miles from the nearest metro area. This year they got over 30 resumes from a single T20 in that metro area. The students had simply drawn a 200 mile circle around the metro town and mailed every firm in that radius, regardless of size or practice. It works eventually, but again, it's the minimum you have to do.

I agree that this will work sometimes, however I don't think it's a good general strategy. This is like going to a bar and trying to pick up every single girl using the same generic line. If you get lucky, one is loose and doesn't care that you're not trying very hard to get *her*. The better approach is to focus where you are competitive. You can resume bomb every firm with 250+ lawyers and see who bites, but you will probably do better to find 20-30 that you think have a good fit based on practices, geography, school/personal ties, and competitiveness.

You need to do a thorough assessment of what your strongest selling points are (since grades are obviously not one of them). After you've identified your target area, you need to research your ass off regarding the firms in that area. Once you've narrowed it down you can start doing a targeted campaign to try to recruit at those firms.

ETA: Also, go study.

Posted: **Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:05 pm**

bdubs wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:I applaud this method and used it myself quite successfully. Just be aware that everyone is doing this now and it is a baseline, not a reach. One of my friend's parents are in a three-person struggling general practice firm in a 30,000 person town about 100 miles from the nearest metro area. This year they got over 30 resumes from a single T20 in that metro area. The students had simply drawn a 200 mile circle around the metro town and mailed every firm in that radius, regardless of size or practice. It works eventually, but again, it's the minimum you have to do.
I agree that this will work sometimes, however I don't think it's a good general strategy. This is like going to a bar and trying to pick up every single girl using the same generic line. If you get lucky, one is loose and doesn't care that you're not trying very hard to get *her*. The better approach is to focus where you are competitive. You can resume bomb every firm with 250+ lawyers and see who bites, but you will probably do better to find 20-30 that you think have a good fit based on practices, geography, school/personal ties, and competitiveness.

You need to do a thorough assessment of what your strongest selling points are (since grades are obviously not one of them). After you've identified your target area, you need to research your ass off regarding the firms in that area. Once you've narrowed it down you can start doing a targeted campaign to try to recruit at those firms.

ETA: Also, go study.

Here's the problem with what you're suggesting: it assumes you're some amazing "fit" at some subset of firms. That's almost certainly not true. It misunderstands how fungible law students are. Furthermore, if you first "focus" (whatever that means; what can you do after you applied and followed up after a reasonable period?) you should still. be. hustling. Which leads to you the method I posted above.

Posted: **Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:12 pm**

Anonymous User wrote:
bdubs wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:I applaud this method and used it myself quite successfully. Just be aware that everyone is doing this now and it is a baseline, not a reach. One of my friend's parents are in a three-person struggling general practice firm in a 30,000 person town about 100 miles from the nearest metro area. This year they got over 30 resumes from a single T20 in that metro area. The students had simply drawn a 200 mile circle around the metro town and mailed every firm in that radius, regardless of size or practice. It works eventually, but again, it's the minimum you have to do.
I agree that this will work sometimes, however I don't think it's a good general strategy. This is like going to a bar and trying to pick up every single girl using the same generic line. If you get lucky, one is loose and doesn't care that you're not trying very hard to get *her*. The better approach is to focus where you are competitive. You can resume bomb every firm with 250+ lawyers and see who bites, but you will probably do better to find 20-30 that you think have a good fit based on practices, geography, school/personal ties, and competitiveness.

You need to do a thorough assessment of what your strongest selling points are (since grades are obviously not one of them). After you've identified your target area, you need to research your ass off regarding the firms in that area. Once you've narrowed it down you can start doing a targeted campaign to try to recruit at those firms.

ETA: Also, go study.
Here's the problem with what you're suggesting: it assumes you're some amazing "fit" at some subset of firms. That's almost certainly not true. It misunderstands how fungible law students are. Furthermore, if you first "focus" (whatever that means; what can you do after you applied and followed up after a reasonable period?) you should still. be. hustling. Which leads to you the method I posted above.

Fit could be based 95% on grades and geography for all I care. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to mass mail Cravath from the bottom 10% of Georgetown and then send the same mass mail to Ice Miller in Indianapolis with minor tweaks.

You're also just not likely to get noticed if you send a generic cover letter and resume, especially if you're part of the group that has to rely on mass mail in the first place. If you show some real knowledge about what a firm does, and you make an effort to reach out to them, it can only help your application stand out. It's just not possible to make that kind of effort with 250 firms, so narrowing to a group that is reasonable in size and not stupidly selected will help you increase your odds. You can mass mail the crappy cover letter and resume to the other 220 firms.

Posted: **Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:08 pm**

bdubs wrote: Fit could be based 95% on grades and geography for all I care.

I know people who got offers (and even their only offers) outside of their geographic match and outside their grade match. I think what you're missing is that I am talking about mass mailing, which is not your only tactic, and not even your best shot at getting a job. It's your last shot, after you've tried to get to every job fair you can, meticulously bid, reached out to alums at firms, etc.

I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to mass mail Cravath from the bottom 10% of Georgetown and then send the same mass mail to Ice Miller in Indianapolis with minor tweaks.

It does if you are targeting the same group at both places. You have the same skills to offer both places. And yes, bottom 10% isn't going to get Cravath, but again, let the firms ding you. What exactly is the point of saying, "I'm not going to get a V10 so why bother."?

You're also just not likely to get noticed if you send a generic cover letter and resume, especially if you're part of the group that has to rely on mass mail in the first place.

My experience and the experience of people I know doesn't comport with this. Once you get to mass mailing, it seems to mostly be about volume and endurance.

If you show some real knowledge about what a firm does, and you make an effort to reach out to them, it can only help your application stand out.

Fine, do that too. But for all the firms you can't do that for, you should still apply, and do it with a generic cover letter if that's all you really know. Because frankly, none of these firms is such a special snowflake that you're going to have some really profound tidbit to put in that cover letter.

It's just not possible to make that kind of effort with 250 firms, so narrowing to a group that is reasonable in size and not stupidly selected will help you increase your odds.

The fact is, a lot of the firms that you have a decent shot at, you're going to talk to at OCI anyway. But yes, you can add a few more and email alums and get a better "feel," but when you've hit up all the firms that take summer classes in your preferred market, and done all you can via OCI and job fairs, you still haven't done enough. That's why mass mailing exists, and that's why it's called mass mailing and not targeted mailing. People get jobs this way every year. After exhausting your preferred options, you still haven't done enough until you've done this.

You can mass mail the crappy cover letter and resume to the other 220 firms.

Yup.

Posted: **Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:07 pm**

Like someone else said earlier, are you retarded? Just study. T14 2L here who struck out at OCI with below median grades and struggled to find employment after. Nothing I can do about my 1L grades now. You still have time. Study your ass off and get your grades up, unlike a 2L or 3L, you STILL have a chance. I would do anything to go back and redo my 1L year. Get your ass off TLS and study like your life depends on it, because really, it kind of does.

Posted: **Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:37 pm**

Anonymous User wrote:
You can mass mail the crappy cover letter and resume to the other 220 firms.
Yup.

Fair enough, I'm just going based on my previous experiences doing recruiting in other industries and as a 1L. My 1L "mass mail" equivalent only resulted in one screening interview offer, whereas my targeted applications had something like a 33% yield. It's a pretty small sample and there are probably a lot of personal idiosyncrasies at play though.

Posted: **Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:52 pm**

rad lulz wrote:Go study you fucking moron.

lol

Posted: **Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:06 pm**

bdubs wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
You can mass mail the crappy cover letter and resume to the other 220 firms.
Yup.
Fair enough, I'm just going based on my previous experiences doing recruiting in other industries and as a 1L. My 1L "mass mail" equivalent only resulted in one screening interview offer, whereas my targeted applications had something like a 33% yield. It's a pretty small sample and there are probably a lot of personal idiosyncrasies at play though.

I don't know that JDMBAs have any business in a thread like this, bro.

Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:50 pm**

Anonymous User wrote:Like someone else said earlier, are you retarded? Just study. T14 2L here who struck out at OCI with below median grades and struggled to find employment after. Nothing I can do about my 1L grades now. You still have time. Study your ass off and get your grades up, unlike a 2L or 3L, you STILL have a chance. I would do anything to go back and redo my 1L year. Get your ass off TLS and study like your life depends on it, because really, it kind of does.

Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:19 pm**

FlanAl wrote:tagging for when i get the other half of my grades

Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:24 pm**

Below median is not an awful place to be, try to get your grades up while you can. If you finish around median or a little below, just hustle this summer and if you have personality and show that you would be a good person to work with, firms might overlook the fact that grades are not stellar. I know people with grades barely above median with V15 firm jobs, just try to stay around median at the worst and you can definitely hustle your way to a job if you know what you're doing.

The minute you are done with finals, begin making a list of partners to contact in the cities you want to target during OGI or for mass mailings. Spend a month making that list (make it partners that do work that you want to do, work that you can talk about intelligently). Then in late June, mass mail those contacts, saying you want to speak with them about what they do. Obviously most might not reply, but you could end up getting a few hits that lead directly to at least callbacks. But I stress....do this AFTER Finals, just try and do as well as possible now, worry about the job stuff this summer, you'll have three months to get your hustle on.

Posted: **Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:05 pm**

You do realize that median isn't some bright-line cut-off between models and bottles and doc review, right?

Posted: **Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:14 pm**

wiseguy33 wrote:I hear folks like me have to start the job search early. I realize OCI is probably out of the question for me. How does mass mailing work? Just start searching Martindale and apply to every firm I find? Should I avoid larger firms entirely? Does this mean midsize firms as well? Should I wait for gov/public interest interviews in the fall? Any hope from attending networking events?

Thanks in advance.

It would be quite foolish to count out OCI. Your job search should be a two-prong strategy. First, use NALP to start applying to firms in late summer (August). Apply to every NALP-listed firm (don't bother with Martindale) systematically in a market, then hit all the markets you can make a plausible connection to. Then, have a smart NYC-based bidding strategy for OCI. If you're slightly below median, realize that firms will lump you in with the slightly above median folks--most T14's have a floating median so firms can't tell exactly where it is. You should definitely apply to less-selective NYC firms that take big classes (Kaye Scholer, etc). I'd bid on Fried Frank on down. Be aggressive about picking up interviews from open signups, etc.

75% of people at most T14's are in a grade range where they have a good shot at OCI, and 60-70% (or 70-75% if CCN) will get an offer. So supplement OCI with a mass-mailing campaign, but don't rule it out--you'll probably get a job out of it unless you're really far below median.

Posted: **Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:32 am**

If your journal write-on is after exams, definitely apply to LR. I managed to write on despite being below median at my T10, and had multiple V100 offers.

Also, targeted mailings for firms not coming to OCI worked very well for me.

Finally, don't be afraid to network with associates/partners for firms that ARE coming to OCI. Being able to tell an on-campus interviewer that you've already met with/spoken with someone at the firm (preferably in a practice area you have an interest in) goes a long way towards making you stand out in a herd of people with unmemorable grades.

Posted: **Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:00 pm**

I'll echo what others have said: it is completely pointless to be worrying about this now. Work on studying and worry about employment in the summer. And don't pass up on OCI if you *want* a firm job. Even if your grades don't improve, it's pointless not to try.

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2012 8:51 am**

bumping now that finals are over. i went and studied. not sure it helped.

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2012 9:00 am**

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