Quinn Emanuel's new recruiting model Forum

[bdubs]

Does anyone know anything more about this? There is zero info on QE's website right now. It's not clear whether they want to do a resume drop really early (April-May) or whether they are just trying to get in front of students before they leave school. Any idea how this will impact the likelihood of getting a callback at QE for various candidates?

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/03/quinn-em ... ecruiting/

[jkpolk]

I don't know anything about anything, but this looks awesome

[005618502]

So that starts this year?

And its for 1Ls with one semester of grades only?

Man I hope they expand that list to other T10 schools next spring!! That sounds awesome

[Onthebrink]

Further proof that QE is just awesome.

[LawIdiot86]

Call me cynical, but this doesn't sound good to me. Getting beyond the logistics of matching people from these social events to resumes to call back, "Ok, which one of you met with John, John Michaelson? Went to Baylor undregrad?", this is still more work for students with the same super low chances. Imagine if every big lit shop had a mixer like this the spring of 1L that was mandatory if you wanted a summer slot? That would pretty much be one or two a week, while you are still trying to perform in class, do your writing class and do mock trial. Also, I've been to a number of the 1L receptions and OCI receptions that firms do. Even if they staff them with a number of lawyers, it's still about 7 or 8 law students per lawyer. So instead of 20 minutes of undivided access to maybe click with an interviewer, it's now 40 minutes of competition with 6 other people to try and be memorable. This may help super type-As, as has been mentioned, but even if Quinn is looking for those people exclusively, it is very easy for 3 of them to end up in the same group or to only have spoken to a couple of lawyers who wee more focused on the drinks. And, anyone worth their salt, will prep for one of these receptions as much as they do for an OCI slot.

Also, what is Quinn going to do if it gets an app in July from some kid at a T-6, top 5%, winner of mock trial, who didn't go to a reception? Is it going to actually turn that kid down? Or is it going to leave a number of slots open after this new program to let it cherry pick the students who spent their spring of 1L locked in the library acing it? Seems like a fairly cheap way to lock down students it might otherwise lose to the competition and get some press, while stretching out the agony that is OCI and making more work for students.

[bk1]

Not saying that screeners are great, but a forced meet and greet with gunnerish law students competing for jobs doesn't sound like an ideal replacement.

[sunynp]

This is a good way for them to give the impression that everyone has a chance at their firm. They are saving all the time they waste by having to interview people they would never hire.
This way they dont have to pretend they care about people they have no interest in, but as consolation they give you food and drink. By now they are probably pretty good at spotting the people who will fit in their culture.

Actually I can see someone saying- we could have some great parties with the money we spend on OCI....

[Anonymous User]

From my experience at OCI at MVP, this matches Quinn's personality but not their OCI behavior. They extended callbacks almost primarily based on grades, and actually gave the callback letters during interviews only after looking at transcripts. So it seems that grades were pretty important to their process, and I'm skeptical that they would really move away from such a system. This might be more of a recruiting tactic (making themselves seem fun and Quinn-like) than an actual selection tactic.

[LawIdiot86]

From my experience at OCI at MVP, this matches Quinn's personality but not their OCI behavior. They extended callbacks almost primarily based on grades, and actually gave the callback letters during interviews only after looking at transcripts. So it seems that grades were pretty important to their process, and I'm skeptical that they would really move away from such a system. This might be more of a recruiting tactic (making themselves seem fun and Quinn-like) than an actual selection tactic.

And don't forget locking people down months before OCI with what seems like a very personal offer: "Unlike the other firms, we actually looked at your and decided you would be a good fit here. Feel free to go to OCI and interview with them, but remember, we really want you and really will be a fit."

[Anonymous User]

From my experience at OCI at MVP, this matches Quinn's personality but not their OCI behavior. They extended callbacks almost primarily based on grades, and actually gave the callback letters during interviews only after looking at transcripts. So it seems that grades were pretty important to their process, and I'm skeptical that they would really move away from such a system. This might be more of a recruiting tactic (making themselves seem fun and Quinn-like) than an actual selection tactic.

Sounds like they are following essentially the same selection process as always, just shifted a bit- "screen" by identifying personality fits at the party, request resumes and weed out the lions share according their rank, callback accordingly. Only the most trivial and random part of the selection process is substantively changed.

Seems like a great idea (for their culture) so long as they're the only firm doing it. Would be a mess if even a handful of firms tried pulling it off, of course.

[bdubs]

Haha I wasn't trying to start a thread with commentary on whether this is a good idea or not, but it seems like that is where it's going.

This is a common occurrence in other professional hiring. Many of the top recruiters resist the controls that the schools impose on them (like grade blind bidding) and take their recruitment outside of the traditional channels.

I'm still interested to know if anyone has any information about how they will run this process. Have any CSOs mentioned this yet?

[Anonymous User]

I especially love the comment about the guy concerned for top 5% at UChi who won Mock Trial that is in desperate fear that he will actually have to socialize with people and won't just be handed a seat in a lonely room where he can simply hand the recruiter his transcript....LOL

This makes complete sense! How often these firms must callback a guy with a 3.78 instead of the guy with a 3.42 only to realize the 3.78 can't interact with human beings, clients, and the world outside of a computer screen and hornbook....I love it!

[Anonymous User]

I especially love the comment about the guy concerned for top 5% at UChi who won Mock Trial that is in desperate fear that he will actually have to socialize with people and won't just be handed a seat in a lonely room where he can simply hand the recruiter his transcript....LOL

This makes complete sense! How often these firms must callback a guy with a 3.78 instead of the guy with a 3.42 only to realize the 3.78 can't interact with human beings, clients, and the world outside of a computer screen and hornbook....I love it!

What makes you think 3.42 guy is more likely to interact well than 3.78 guy? IME there's really no correlation between law school grades and how socially awkward you are. Firms just take all the 3.78 guys and then weed out the ones who can't hold a conversation during callbacks.

This doesn't change how grade dependent they are one iota. They are just skipping OCI and will probably continue to give callbacks based primarily on grades.

[LawIdiot86]

I especially love the comment about the guy concerned for top 5% at UChi who won Mock Trial that is in desperate fear that he will actually have to socialize with people and won't just be handed a seat in a lonely room where he can simply hand the recruiter his transcript....LOL

This makes complete sense! How often these firms must callback a guy with a 3.78 instead of the guy with a 3.42 only to realize the 3.78 can't interact with human beings, clients, and the world outside of a computer screen and hornbook....I love it!

You misread. I'm not concerned for that guy. I'm calling Quinn out for being disingenuous. The top 5% kid who can't socialize is STILL going to get an offer from them because their conception of a top law student is STILL driven by grades, regardless of personality. They'll under-recruit from this new event and leave enough spots open to shower the awkward kids with great grades at OCI. He may actually have to mail in his resume now if Quinn doesn't come to campus, but their need for prestige will prevent them from taking the 3.42 kid over the 3.78 kid they know will bid on them at OCI, even if they claim otherwise with this new program.

[Detrox]

I especially love the comment about the guy concerned for top 5% at UChi who won Mock Trial that is in desperate fear that he will actually have to socialize with people and won't just be handed a seat in a lonely room where he can simply hand the recruiter his transcript....LOL

This makes complete sense! How often these firms must callback a guy with a 3.78 instead of the guy with a 3.42 only to realize the 3.78 can't interact with human beings, clients, and the world outside of a computer screen and hornbook....I love it!

You misread. I'm not concerned for that guy. I'm calling Quinn out for being disingenuous. The top 5% kid who can't socialize is STILL going to get an offer from them because their conception of a top law student is STILL driven by grades, regardless of personality. They'll under-recruit from this new event and leave enough spots open to shower the awkward kids with great grades at OCI. He may actually have to mail in his resume now if Quinn doesn't come to campus, but their need for prestige will prevent them from taking the 3.42 kid over the 3.78 kid they know will bid on them at OCI, even if they claim otherwise with this new program.

This. If you seriously think Quinn will be taking the 3.42 kid because of this stylistic change in recruiting, well then I guess their PR strategy worked and Quinn isn't like those other snobby firms with their prestige and suits. It's just a workspace with cool people who all just happen to know the law and practice litigation for 80 hrs a week!

[Tanicius]

"Wow man, you're a pretty cool drinking buddy. Before I go why don't you toss me your grades transcript?"

"Sure, here you go."

"Ooooooh... Dang, man. Well, it was good to meet you anyway!"

[drdolittle]

Many of the top recruiters resist the controls that the schools impose on them (like grade blind bidding) and take their recruitment outside of the traditional channels.

This is what the new recruiting scheme really seems to be about, for better or worse. Since this is just now being reported I'd actually be surprised if schools had more info on it other than what's on ABL. The announcement quoted seems to suggest resumes will be submitted (or requested?) after the meet and greet as a pre/extra-OCI screen, which should give Quinn a leg up in recruiting. On a side note, the firm's '08 summer Swiss hike referenced in the post looked like an awesome time, particularly for SA's. Wonder what they've tried to top that?

[LawIdiot86]

Also, am I the only one who thinks it is bizarre that top firms feel they aren't getting the best talent? I was talking to a partner at an NLJ250 firm/regional vault who was saying they got 1,000 applications for 4 summer slots. The kid in the top 5% at HLS IS smarter then the kid in the top 30% at HLS and then the kid in the top 5% at GW or American. That kid has performed better on metrics like the LSAT and in the high pressure environment of law school and will do a COA clerkship. But for the work given the average first year associate, even at a firm like Quinn, there will be almost no difference in the work quantity or quality of the four hypothetical students I just described. This sort of hiring mentality is like hiring a jumbo jet to carry 10 people or buying a mack truck to tow a trailer home; they'll never actually use him to the level that his greater ability will make a difference.

[drdolittle]

Yeah, it's almost like Quinn's new strategy implicitly acknowledges that the traditional recruiting approach is not working as well for them as they'd like, yet I doubt their objective hiring standards like grade cutoffs will change. It probably just means that the old approach alone has not brought them exactly what they've been looking for at a high enough rate -- despite incoming associates' passage of selection criteria re: grades, interviews, summer performance, etc.

[azntwice]

Also, am I the only one who thinks it is bizarre that top firms feel they aren't getting the best talent? I was talking to a partner at an NLJ250 firm/regional vault who was saying they got 1,000 applications for 4 summer slots. The kid in the top 5% at HLS IS smarter then [sic] the kid in the top 30% at HLS and then [sic] the kid in the top 5% at GW or American. That kid has performed better on metrics like the LSAT and in the high pressure environment of law school and will do a COA clerkship. But for the work given the average first year associate, even at a firm like Quinn, there will be almost no difference in the work quantity or quality of the four hypothetical students I just described. This sort of hiring mentality is like hiring a jumbo jet to carry 10 people or buying a mack truck to tow a trailer home; they'll never actually use him to the level that his greater ability will make a difference.

i don't know if you mean to imply that the kid in the top 5% at HLS is actually smarter than the kid in the top 5% at GW, but that is a patently false statement. they could have scored exactly the same on the LSAT, but the kid at HLS majored in English or philosophy while the kid at GW majored in bioengineering and had a low GPA to match. and there's a marked difference in test taking abilities that doesn't translate to real-world abilities at all. that kind of condescension is totally offensive and unfortunately so typical of law school students.

anyway, i personally think the QE hiring model is just a PR trick. i doubt it's going to actually change the candidates they ultimately offer.

[truevines]

Does anyone know anything more about this? There is zero info on QE's website right now. It's not clear whether they want to do a resume drop really early (April-May) or whether they are just trying to get in front of students before they leave school. Any idea how this will impact the likelihood of getting a callback at QE for various candidates?

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/03/quinn-em ... ecruiting/

This seems a great way to weed out gunners. In such a reception event, gunners will definitely chase hiring partners, managing partners, and senior associates, and gun them down. It will be interesting to see how those gunners play out.

But I think this is more difficult than the traditional OCI screening, where you only need to present your best self for 20 minutes only. But here, you have to work the room for 2-3 hours and have to kiss everybody's ass.

[Anonymous User]

Given how absurd these kinds of receptions are when callbacks aren't even at stake (think 10 gunners gathered around 1 partner fighting tooth and nail for the opportunity to ask him about how much "substantive responsibility" junior associates get), I can't imagine what these Quinn things will be like. I would love to be a fly on the wall just for the sheer entertainment value.

[Shaggier1]

Yale: March 27 at 6:30 pm
Harvard: March 28 at 6:30 pm
Chicago & Northwestern: April 5 at 6:30 pm
Berkeley: April 10 at 6:30 pm
Stanford: April 11 at 6:30 pm

Blatant CLS, NYU, Michigan, UVA, Penn, Cornell, Georgetown & Duke trolling

[Anonymous User]

From my experience at OCI at MVP, this matches Quinn's personality but not their OCI behavior. They extended callbacks almost primarily based on grades, and actually gave the callback letters during interviews only after looking at transcripts. So it seems that grades were pretty important to their process, and I'm skeptical that they would really move away from such a system. This might be more of a recruiting tactic (making themselves seem fun and Quinn-like) than an actual selection tactic.

Agreed, but this DOES match their OCI behavior. As stated, all they care about is grades. This system allows Quinn to do what they want -- only look at your transcript. They won't waste days sitting in hotel rooms interviewing candidates with no chance. They can have one reception for face time, gather transcripts, and be done. A more efficient, Quinn like, process. At the same time, they can perpetuate the false stereotype that they are a "fun" and "revolutionary" firm to try and snatch applicants they might lose to other firms. Don't drink the kool-aid kids. Quinn has been extremely successful, and would be a good place to start a career. But there is no time for fun when you are billing Quinn hours (and not getting appropriately compensated for those hours -- --LinkRemoved--)

[NinerFan]

Given how absurd these kinds of receptions are when callbacks aren't even at stake (think 10 gunners gathered around 1 partner fighting tooth and nail for the opportunity to ask him about how much "substantive responsibility" junior associates get), I can't imagine what these Quinn things will be like. I would love to be a fly on the wall just for the sheer entertainment value.

Yeah, having gone to these types of receptions, I have never derived any sort of "entertainment value" from them unless you count my vivid fantasies of punching certain fellow students at the reception in the face.