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I am a 1L at M and am wondering what type of grades it takes to be hired in a smaller market such as Grand Rapids or Indianapolis, or to be hired in a larger market (D.C. or Dallas), but be paid below market. My point being is that I am ok making 90-100K in a secondary market, or even 100-135k in D.C./Dallas, and I just want to know where my grades would have to be for firms of this type.

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Cubyfan21 wrote:I am a 1L at M and am wondering what type of grades it takes to be hired in a smaller market such as Grand Rapids or Indianapolis, or to be hired in a larger market (D.C. or Dallas), but be paid below market. My point being is that I am ok making 90-100K in a secondary market, or even 100-135k in D.C./Dallas, and I just want to know where my grades would have to be for firms of this type.

It's not a mathematical formula. Do you have ties to Grand Rapids, Indianapolis, or Dallas? If you don't have ties, I'm not certain that you should bother wasting bids on firms in those markets. You should just mass mail them while focusing on bidding on where you have ties to and Chicago/NYC.

Aberzombie1892 wrote:

Cubyfan21 wrote:I am a 1L at M and am wondering what type of grades it takes to be hired in a smaller market such as Grand Rapids or Indianapolis, or to be hired in a larger market (D.C. or Dallas), but be paid below market. My point being is that I am ok making 90-100K in a secondary market, or even 100-135k in D.C./Dallas, and I just want to know where my grades would have to be for firms of this type.

It's not a mathematical formula. Do you have ties to Grand Rapids, Indianapolis, or Dallas? If you don't have ties, I'm not certain that you should bother wasting bids on firms in those markets. You should just mass mail them while focusing on bidding on where you have ties to and Chicago/NYC.

FTFY

Not sure the OP understands law firm salary structures.

OP here, I am not very familiar with the law firm salary structure. However, I did do research on firms in Grand Rapids, and some firms in DC that pay below market (in the 100-135 range), and that is why I used those numbers. I am more than happy to hear the salary structure explained. Maybe I should have asked what GPA would cut me off from working in DC or these other regions. I worked hard and landed right above median, but by the slimmest margin imaginable. I am not gunning for the very best firms, but I would like to work in one of the listed market, and have some ties to each market (family in Michigan, worked in DC and went to school in VA,..).

Median grades will give you a shot at many places, but most of these firms won't be coming to OCI.

Focus on improving grades, then this summer prep a big massmailing campaign (and with 4-5 markets, it's going to be massive and time-consuming). The market will tell you if your ties and grades are strong enough shortly. I don't know what firms you're looking at, but I bet a bunch of them take 0-3 summers, so you're going to need volume on your side anyway.

IMO in secondary markets, there are firms that are impressed by "big names" and willing to dip lower to get them, and then there are firms who would rather just take top 10% at MSU/Catholic/whatever. That can change from year to year depending who is on the hiring committee, so again, if you're going to pull this off, MASSIVE massmailing campaign.

Thanks for the advice. Should I send my information via snail mail or is email ok to do these mass mailing campaigns?

Any NALP firm, just email. I've heard conflicting things about non-NALP.

IAFG wrote:Any NALP firm, just email. I've heard conflicting things about non-NALP.

For non-NALP firms, you can just check the firm's website and they'll usually indicate if they want snail mail/e-mail or if they even hire SA's at all.

I'm a 2L at MVP, and had several market-paying V50 offers in DC despite being below median. For some firms/practices, relevant work experience matters more than a couple of bad 1L exams.

And for what it's worth, I also had offers at a few DC boutiques paying below market (in that 100-135k range).

So if you have a legitimate background/set of skills for DC, mediocre grades won't totally rule you out.

Yeah, work experience, ties, and interviewing skills will be as important, if not more to the smaller markets.

Also, this also falls into the "I'm happy with the 90-110K job" in a big market which honestly doesn't really exist....a lot of people enter law school and think that they will get those jobs if they don't get "big law"--of course some exist but in reality it is mostly 145/160K market rate or 45-55k....there just aren't many private starting salary jobs in big markets like DC/Dallas that fall in between.

Good luck and make the most of this summer applying...try to set up some times to sit with attorneys at firms in whatever city you really want or are in and connect however you can....

Anonymous User wrote:Yeah, work experience, ties, and interviewing skills will be as important, if not more to the smaller markets.

Also, this also falls into the "I'm happy with the 90-110K job" in a big market which honestly doesn't really exist....a lot of people enter law school and think that they will get those jobs if they don't get "big law"--of course some exist but in reality it is mostly 145/160K market rate or 45-55k....there just aren't many private starting salary jobs in big markets like DC/Dallas that fall in between.

Good luck and make the most of this summer applying...try to set up some times to sit with attorneys at firms in whatever city you really want or are in and connect however you can....

probably not DC/NYC, but in the Texas markets, there are a good number of firms that do pay in the upper 5 figures/low 100s that aren't in the NLJ250. I'd say at UT, around median would still be competitive for these gigs in Dallas/Houston, in the small Texas markets, below median would even work (but then you need some serious ties).

pretty much any grades, just have to interview well

not counting DC

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rad lulz wrote:Hey I got a good idea, how about you come back after you get the other half of your grades.

This adds nothing, nothing at all, and is probably meaningless--this is one of those fools who thinks their grades alone will get them their job and gets mad when people with lower grades get better offers and positions...

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rad lulz wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

rad lulz wrote:Hey I got a good idea, how about you come back after you get the other half of your grades.

This adds nothing, nothing at all, and is probably meaningless--this is one of those fools who thinks their grades alone will get them their job and gets mad when people with lower grades get better offers and positions...

No; thanks for playing. And nice anon call-out you coward.

Says the guy who is also hiding behind a screen. Umadbro?

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The anon feature isn't there so you can express negative opinions about other posters.

Snape wrote:

rad lulz wrote:Hey I got a good idea, how about you come back after you get the other half of your grades.

This adds nothing, nothing at all, and is probably meaningless--this is one of those fools who thinks their grades alone will get them their job and gets mad when people with lower grades get better offers and positions...

Don't mind him... Rad lulz trolls harder than anyone on this whole website