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Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:05 am
by Anonymous User
GPA dropped significantly by about .22 points. Went from top 8% in 1L to 30% 2L fall.
Thankfully, nothing lower than B in 2L fall, but I had nearly all B and B+.
I have a V25 and I had to send in transcript.
How worried should I be in regards getting an offer?
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:09 am
by kalvano
Gee, this topic has never been discussed before.
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:10 am
by Anonymous User
I wouldn't be too worried, especially since you have this next semester to bring it back up again. I'm a transfer (which obviously gives me some leeway for grade drop since grades at the different schools are apples and oranges), and spent a lot longer on job search than most, missed class for the better part of a month, etc. Ended up with a 3.1 (one B- really killed me), whereas I had something like 3.6 at my old school. So my drop was alot bigger, but I'm really not worried because I'm buckled down hardcore this semester, and will raise the GPA just by virtue of being settled into my new school and being able to attend all my classes.
Remember that firms aren't schools. They have no need to just weigh all figures in order to report an overall number. They will see your grade trends, and unlike the schools, they can actually choose to credit that grade trend as representative of you, and act on that. So if you recover well, they will clearly see that you had just one bad semester, got right back on the horse, and I can't imagine that it would be a basis for no-offering you, especially if your work is good this summer.
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:16 am
by de5igual
kalvano wrote:Gee, this topic has never been discussed before.
to be fair, the usual response is a plethora of people stating that firms don't care and don't even check. here, the firm asked for it.
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:21 am
by Anonymous User
f0bolous wrote:kalvano wrote:Gee, this topic has never been discussed before.
to be fair, the usual response is a plethora of people stating that firms don't care and don't even check. here, the firm asked for it.
Even if the firm asks, I still think its more of a formality than anything else. And even if you have a fall semester 2L drop that raises eyebrows, you can still recover well and negate any concerns. So I don't see a reason for OP to worry.
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:59 am
by Morgan12Oak
OP - your cumulative GPA dropped by .22? As in from like a 3.7 to a 3.48?
I really wouldn't be too worried, but at the same time I would probably work harder this semester.
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:42 am
by Anonymous User
Morgan12Oak wrote:OP - your cumulative GPA dropped by .22? As in from like a 3.7 to a 3.48?
I really wouldn't be too worried, but at the same time I would probably work harder this semester.
My GPA went up. Should I slack off a bit?
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:49 am
by rad lulz
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Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:16 pm
by Anonymous User
FWIW, I experienced a larger drop from 10--->median...career service said that this is nothing to worry about. But, of course, it would be wise for us to improve this semester.
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:18 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:FWIW, I experienced a larger drop from 10--->median...career service said that this is nothing to worry about. But, of course, it would be wise for us to improve this semester.
School, or at least ranking range?
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:28 pm
by Anonymous User
T14
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:53 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:T14
Would it matter if it was a T1 instead?
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:21 pm
by Anonymous User
I do not think it would matter if you were TTTT, my feeling is that grades get you hired, your work product and personality (notwithstanding all C's and B's or failing a class) get you offers to return.
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:00 pm
by Anonymous User
If firms didn't care, why would some firms have a maintaining grade condition on their offer letters?
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:05 pm
by drdolittle
Anonymous User wrote:If firms didn't care, why would some firms have a maintaining grade condition on their offer letters?
Because they're written/reviewed by lawyers and thus the tendency is to cover all bases just in case.
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:10 pm
by Julio_El_Chavo
Somewhat unrelatedly: I would think federal judges would care about a 3L grade drop, since they haven't seen as much of your work as a firm has before your start date AND because judges generally care more about your grades in general. Yet I've never heard of a federal judge rescinding a clerkship offer based on a 3L grade drop.
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:08 am
by Stanford4Me
drdolittle wrote:Anonymous User wrote:If firms didn't care, why would some firms have a maintaining grade condition on their offer letters?
Because they're written/reviewed by lawyers and thus the tendency is to cover all bases just in case.
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:25 pm
by Anonymous User
In regards to a significant 2L GPA drop, does it make any difference that the V30 firm I will be summering is very selective and has high, hard GPA cut-off (at least for my non-T14 school)?
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:57 pm
by LawIdiot86
Anonymous User wrote:In regards to a significant 2L GPA drop, does it make any difference that the V30 firm I will be summering is very selective and has high, hard GPA cut-off (at least for my non-T14 school)?
If it's GDC or if by non-T14 you mean TTT/TTTT, then yes. Otherwise, no.
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:43 pm
by Anonymous User
LawIdiot86 wrote:Anonymous User wrote:In regards to a significant 2L GPA drop, does it make any difference that the V30 firm I will be summering is very selective and has high, hard GPA cut-off (at least for my non-T14 school)?
If it's GDC or if by non-T14 you mean TTT/TTTT, then yes. Otherwise, no.
The GDC grade-drop-ding myth has been debunked multiple times.
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:16 pm
by Old Gregg
I don't really like this meme, but I think it's particularly funny now because of his username:
LawIdiot is an idiot.
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:33 pm
by LawIdiot86
Fresh Prince wrote:I don't really like this meme, but I think it's particularly funny now because of his username:
LawIdiot is an idiot.
Eh, I was basing it off the comment from a current legal recruiter who said GDC requests transcripts, not just proof of graduation, from the recruiter's people it is considering as lateral partners. That reinforced the idea that they actually care about grades.
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:20 am
by Morgan12Oak
i'd be very worried, of course. TLS has this myth that grades don't matter because firms invest too much in you, don't care, etc., but that is significantly flawed with survivor bias (people rarely report they get no offered b/c of stigma).
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:27 am
by Old Gregg
Morgan12Oak wrote:i'd be very worried, of course. TLS has this myth that grades don't matter because firms invest too much in you, don't care, etc., but that is significantly flawed with survivor bias (people rarely report they get no offered b/c of stigma).
You can also do simple math...
S&C had over 100 summer associates last summer. All (or almost all) received offers. All (or almost all) could not have maintained their excellent grades. Expand analysis to other top firms and you'll see a general pattern:
No one cares.
Re: Significant Grade Drop.
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:31 am
by Morgan12Oak
maintaining grades and dropping as hard as OP did are two very different things. also, have to factor in cold offers which do happen and are even more likely to not be shared publicly.