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I feel a little better now either way, so whatever.Detrox wrote:This post will undoubtedly stop all use of arbitrary V's with multiples of 5, additionally the notion of T6 will collapse as everyone instantly recognizes it as an artifice of TLS.
Or this thread will spark discussion and/or argument that people will mostly ignore and forget by tomorrow as people inquire as to the advance policies of the "V20"...
Aren't people already using hiring stats in place of USNWR?lawschoolftw wrote:I also wish people would stop using USNWR like USNWR
Vault practice area rankings aren't terrible, but most people seem agree that Chambers is the best guide for this sort of practice area info. http://www.chambersandpartners.com/sn20 wrote:How do you assess the strength of a firm's practice area/where can I find this information? Also on the topic of Vault firms, how should I assess the prestige/strength/lateral options of a non-HQ branch office like a Skadden in Houston vs. the Big 3? 0L here and thanks ahead of time.IAFG wrote:Firms between V10 and V15 are not more prestigious than firms V15-V20. A V40 is not necessarily more prestigious than a V60. Going to a V5 in some markets may very well give you worse lateral options in a than going a lower ranked or even unranked firm. A firm's strength in a certain practice area and city is almost always more meaningful than their Vault ranking. Please stop using Vault like USNWR.
lol thislawschoolftw wrote:I also wish people would stop using USNWR like USNWR
sn20 wrote:How do you assess the strength of a firm's practice area/where can I find this information? Also on the topic of Vault firms, how should I assess the prestige/strength/lateral options of a non-HQ branch office like a Skadden in Houston vs. the Big 3? 0L here and thanks ahead of time.IAFG wrote:Firms between V10 and V15 are not more prestigious than firms V15-V20. A V40 is not necessarily more prestigious than a V60. Going to a V5 in some markets may very well give you worse lateral options in a than going a lower ranked or even unranked firm. A firm's strength in a certain practice area and city is almost always more meaningful than their Vault ranking. Please stop using Vault like USNWR.
The current V25:alabamabound wrote:I don't know the exact Vault numbers off-hand and am too indifferent to look them up, but, that said, there does seem to be a valid distinction drawn between, e.g., PW, GDC, D&P and Sidley vs., e.g., Jones Day, Shearman & Sterling and White & Case, which I think are ranked 15-25.
i LOLd for real and hardDany wrote:OP outed as working at a VsixTTTeen.
Is working in satellite offices not as good as the main office? Will it affect your exit options?IAFG wrote:The current V25:alabamabound wrote:I don't know the exact Vault numbers off-hand and am too indifferent to look them up, but, that said, there does seem to be a valid distinction drawn between, e.g., PW, GDC, D&P and Sidley vs., e.g., Jones Day, Shearman & Sterling and White & Case, which I think are ranked 15-25.
1 1 Wachtell Lipton Rosen & Katz 9.139 New York, NY
2 2 Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP 8.735 New York, NY
3 3 Sullivan & Cromwell LLP 8.443 New York, NY
4 4 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP and Affiliates 8.430 New York, NY
5 5 Davis Polk & Wardwell 8.121 New York, NY
6 6 Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP 7.877 New York, NY
7 7 Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP 7.858 New York, NY
8 9 Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP 7.766 New York, NY
9 11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP 7.496 Chicago, IL
10 10 Covington & Burling LLP 7.382 Washington, DC
11 15 Latham & Watkins LLP 7.335 New York, NY
12 13 Debevoise & Plimpton LLP 7.324 New York, NY
13 12 Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP 7.177 New York, NY
13 8 Williams & Connolly LLP 7.177 Washington, DC
14 14 Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP 7.172 Los Angeles, CA
15 16 Sidley Austin LLP 7.087 Chicago, IL
16 19 Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan LLP 6.868 Los Angeles, CA
17 23 Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP 6.842 New York, NY
18 20 White & Case LLP 6.829 New York, NY
19 18 Jones Day 6.826 Washington, DC
20 21 Arnold & Porter LLP 6.692 Washington, DC
22 24 O'Melveny & Myers LLP 6.537 Los Angeles, CA
23 26 Morrison & Foerster LLP 6.506 San Francisco, CA
24 22 Shearman & Sterling LLP 6.478 New York, NY
25 25 Ropes & Gray LLP 6.473 Boston, MA
So Sidley was out of the magical V15 last year, Quinn and Boies haven't been, Arnold & Porter and MoFo are out, Paul Weiss is in? Not to mention Weil & Skadden's many secondary market offices, which apparently get to claim V5 and V10 status? Williams & Connolly isn't V10... this year? It's just not USNWR and our USNWR shorthands don't translate.
The classic example would be taking Skadden Boston over Ropes Boston. Ropes in that market is King, but aside from that, not every Skadden office is going to have the same or even similar exit options.ph14 wrote: Is working in satellite offices not as good as the main office? Will it affect your exit options?
This "V25" list is blatant anti-Wilmer trolling.ph14 wrote:IAFG wrote:
The current V25:
1 1 Wachtell Lipton Rosen & Katz 9.139 New York, NY
2 2 Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP 8.735 New York, NY
3 3 Sullivan & Cromwell LLP 8.443 New York, NY
4 4 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP and Affiliates 8.430 New York, NY
5 5 Davis Polk & Wardwell 8.121 New York, NY
6 6 Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP 7.877 New York, NY
7 7 Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP 7.858 New York, NY
8 9 Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP 7.766 New York, NY
9 11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP 7.496 Chicago, IL
10 10 Covington & Burling LLP 7.382 Washington, DC
11 15 Latham & Watkins LLP 7.335 New York, NY
12 13 Debevoise & Plimpton LLP 7.324 New York, NY
13 12 Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP 7.177 New York, NY
13 8 Williams & Connolly LLP 7.177 Washington, DC
14 14 Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP 7.172 Los Angeles, CA
15 16 Sidley Austin LLP 7.087 Chicago, IL
16 19 Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan LLP 6.868 Los Angeles, CA
17 23 Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP 6.842 New York, NY
18 20 White & Case LLP 6.829 New York, NY
19 18 Jones Day 6.826 Washington, DC
20 21 Arnold & Porter LLP 6.692 Washington, DC
22 24 O'Melveny & Myers LLP 6.537 Los Angeles, CA
23 26 Morrison & Foerster LLP 6.506 San Francisco, CA
24 22 Shearman & Sterling LLP 6.478 New York, NY
25 25 Ropes & Gray LLP 6.473 Boston, MA
To say it's fully meaningless is to go too far. It certainly garners recognition if simply by being the most popular form of ranking. To deny that it is a definite yardstick for some level of accomplishment is simply a form of wishful thinking held by those who are primarily within its bottom ranks. To treat it as gospel where each 5 slots determines your relative ability, on the other hand, is to provide it with too much power.c3pO4 wrote:+ 1 billion. there are v60's in certain markets that you'd be a fool to turn down. vault isn't even respected in the industry -- firms prefer amlaw and chambers. it's all about what practice areas you care about, who the top partners are, and who the clients are, and location.
vault is fully meaningless. classic example - WSGR is a top 3 firm in the bay area for tech. vault ranking? #50. what is that firm that represents Facebook on their IPO called? Fenwick and West? vault ranking? none. wll you turn your nose up to alston and bird (v53) in atlanta? perkins coie (#66) in the northwest? just lol.
by compensation, the top firms are wachtell, susman, irell, kirkland, boies. some are ranked well, some not.
V15 is meaningless, but i'd go so far as to say the entire V100 rankings are arbitrary.
you have to select your criteria, then rank for those. it changes depending on the metrics.
In non-NYC markets, it's pretty damn meaningless. Try applying the vault rankings to DC or LA or Miami or Texas; you're not going to get anywhere near the actual pecking order. For people in NY, it should still be taken with a grain of salt; I don't think anyone with any clue would choose certain non-NY based firms with weak presences (e.g. Sidley) over other solid NY options.Detrox wrote: To say it's fully meaningless is to go too far. It certainly garners recognition if simply by being the most popular form of ranking. To deny that it is a definite yardstick for some level of accomplishment is simply a form of wishful thinking held by those who are primarily within its bottom ranks. To treat it as gospel where each 5 slots determines your relative ability, on the other hand, is to provide it with too much power.
dood wrote:i LOLd for real and hardDany wrote:OP outed as working at a VsixTTTeen.
but lets be honest, there is no prestige in law to begin with. all those names listed on vault dont mean shit. things that are prestigious: rhodes scholarship, SCOTUS clerkship, G&S, bain capital, st. tropez, etc <- no law firm fits into this list
With the exception of the Rhodes, none of those things is prestigious to your average person.dood wrote:i LOLd for real and hardDany wrote:OP outed as working at a VsixTTTeen.
but lets be honest, there is no prestige in law to begin with. all those names listed on vault dont mean shit. things that are prestigious: rhodes scholarship, SCOTUS clerkship, G&S, bain capital, st. tropez, etc <- no law firm fits into this list